Laz 13/03/22:
Chapter 4
I’m beginning to see the shape of this guy’s future and it is interesting. While I like some aspects of it, others I cannot stand and I wonder how people who do not like the new normal will survive. Will they drop off the grid and form their own communities, or will they be hunted down and thrown in jail?
Jane 17/03/22:
Well that all sounds very futuristic and a bit fucked up to be honest in the way he sees the future of humanity. However, objectively on a physical level where technology is concerned it all sounds pretty far out but yet feasible in the way things are going.
Laz 13/03/22:
"Private services will then manage social rights and the administrative services. We will be in a position to receive and administrative document or an allotment by paying more: this is already the case with great Britain."
What’s this then? I’m not aware of this being a thing for us!
Jane 17/03/22:
Sorry I am not either?
Laz 13/03/22:
On p175 Jaques talks about punishment for not following the rules, and I can’t help but wonder how far this will go.
Jane 17/03/22:
They already penalise things like the smokers and the obese but I think when one makes everything out to be a disease right down to a persons vulnerability then the considerations of the human condition has lost the plot! Humanity is assessed on how it treats its vulnerable and less fortunate.
Is that not where we get our sense of caring and charity from? Values and characteristics come from these very things.
Laz 18/03/22:
Yes it is, but all of the negative things done to people now are being done under a banner of “there are too many people on the planet” as if that gives them the right to cull those less able and unfortunate 🙁
Jane 21/03/22:
Yes they are playing at gods through their misperceptive egoic view. Again I think this is caused by fear and the perception given of lack. It comes from a lack within. The constant negative narrative people are fed or focus on causes such fear of there is not enough, causing a poverty in peoples minds. Then their superiority ego complex wants rid of others.
Laz 18/0/322:
Even my own mother said it to me the other day, and I told her she was just parroting the TV, and I asked her how many people can the earth support, what is it’s maximum capacity? She couldn’t answer and 90% of people who say these things also could not answer!
Jane 21/03/22:
Well I would say that If it is taken down to a mathematical formula then if each person on the planet was allocated a portion of food and water and resources then humans could easily be sustained with need not greed up to its maximum capacity. But it has to depend on the level of cooperation of its inhabitants due to the conscious awareness of the human minds that inhabit it, i.e. have the intelligence to work it out or have control of the said resources.
Laz 22/03/22:
And this is the hard part of changing the world, we’ve build a wicked and corrupt system that is self perpetuation through the generations. Now I’m fully behind tearing it all down and starting again, but the ones doing the building back better should not be the ones who benefited most from the corruption!!! Let’s get them ideological kids to do the rebuilding and designing of the future, before they are too swayed by the corruption themselves.
Jane 21/03/22:
But if nature itself was left to decide as with any ecosystem, I am sure it would find it’s own equilibrium. But that would require no human input of decisions.
Laz 22/03/22:
I consider us 100% part of the nature of this planet, do you subscribe to an off world theory for where humans came from?
Jane 21/03/22:
Extinction of species naturally dying out needs to occur in an adapt or die energy as it does so for creation to continue. Evolve! The earth’s vibrations change along with its inhabitants. The dinosaur had to fuck off before we could come along into existence and evolve 🙂
Some animals cannot adapt to things like environment, climate or a new diet like the giant panda. What do you think when it comes to the dinosaur extinction theories? Was it an asteroid hit to the earth that wiped them all out instantaneously? Or was it when the atmosphere like that of the air ratio of the planet changed to more suite humans breathing equipment than that of the dinosaur meatbag as it was too big and required a higher content of oxygen? A concentration far too high for humans to breath. But I guess an asteroid strike itself could have changed the atmosphere?
Laz 22/03/22:
I put this in my “don’t really know, don’t really care” category I’m afraid, it all happened before I was born, and thus before my particular universe was created, so dinosaurs are as unreal to me as Egyptian Pharaohs, William Shakespeare, or Winston Churchill. Explaining all that and/or worrying about it is not part of my sphere of interest 🙂
Jane 21/03/22:
This is why I sometimes compare people to being animals on the very basic level. This is Darwin’s level of evolution. The survival of the species basically. Physical world. But this is how we differ to animals, we are “aware”…in a mental world with the ability to change. Survival not of the fittest but of those with the right frequencies, in the same way humanities vibrations are required to raise. I would give the same dinosaur comparison about the mentality of humans today when it comes to the stale old farts in control with dinosaur minds and war mentalities. Mentalities have to evolve from the immature psyches, retarded emotions, grown adult children we see. This is where I compare it to a playground.
There is no selfish gene of Dawkins theory, selfishness comes from an ego and the ego is a mind construct, an add on or extension built up around the Self but it is not the persons true self 🙂 Dawkins is an atheist too. I think that makes the difference in perspectives. Part of our human level of the ecosystem is metaphysical….we have a spiritual realm. So there is a whole other realm to consider when it comes to the human mind body and soul in the progression of human evolution and the future of humanity. Humans are multidimensional beings. And I do not think that many of these intelligent people have that big picture in their work.
Laz 22/03/22:
I agree 🙂
Jane 21/03/22:
Experts, they may be in their own fields but that by its definition means they are not jacks. Their expertise keeps them limited in their perspectives. The mind cannot have an expanded view if it is by definition, limited.
Jane 17/03/22:
People learn lessons in humanity this way. Even the egoic have a need to be needed, acknowledged and appreciated.
Laz 13/03/22:
A sensible answer might be that everyone gets enough money to live (UBI), and only those who want to do extra will get more. However this has not yet been stated, and also the drop outs or reprobates, or just plain criminals will have what exactly done to them?
Jane 17/03/22:
I thought the idea was that everyone would get a guaranteed but basic level of living where those with skills or who work would get more, like deservedly so? But it would give a chance to take that break for a while like a retreat to find oneself for some maybe? I mean we don’t get that opportunity in the Western culture unless we can afford to do so.
Laz 18/03/22:
I’m fairly sure I take a dimmer view of this future than you do, and maybe you are right, that would be a nice thing to do 🙂
Laz 13/03/22:
Things could get real scary real quick, but in making non compliance say a case of starving to death (in a severe imagining of the punishment) This surely would not last and people would quickly band together to stop any further progress of this world order!? Only the most callous of individuals could let a family member starve to death next to them, no matter their crime!
Jane 17/02/22:
I have every faith that humans will not lose their humanity when it comes to their fellow men. For all this talk of people becoming isolated and insulated from others, I know it is in the basic nature of man to be sociable. For most people there is no substitute for human interactions, will that change?
Laz 13/03/22:
Jaques’ idea of hypersurveillance is already a reality in China as I understand it, and I can’t help but think the elites have tried things out there which have proven successful to their goals, and will be rolled out to the rest of us soon.
Jane 17/03/22:
As I watched the pandemic unfold I thought to myself how the free world leaders would have loved to have had the grip, even if temporarily that the Chinese had on the masses. Lol. But they have been successful only in a communism compliant environment with no opposition.
Laz 13/03/22:
As above it is a curiosity not stated above as to what happens with those who refuse to take part. What will happen to them. I do hope he covers this later in the book, although I think based upon the style of this work, he will not reveal anything further. I know that the Chinese are denied travel and luxuries for speaking out against the government, and they are still allowed to “live”.
Jane 17/03/22:
Possibly become a fringe society? But maybe psychospiritually, like metaphysically. I guess it depends on what they are being requested to be compliant doing, is it simply the best thing and a good idea, or the worst? People will decide.
Laz 13/03/22:
"Discretion, hitherto a condition of social life, will no longer have a raison d'etre."
This I really like a lot, doing away with lying basically would be a huge step forward for the human race.
Jane 17/03/22:
Wouldn’t it just. Imagine if no-one could lie?
Laz 18/03/22:
I mean I wouldn’t advocate for a electric dog collar kind of control, but if people only knew the power of telling the truth! They wouldn’t have to remember everything they told each person as part of their lies and try and balance their narrative such that it doesn’t get out of control and people realise they were lied to.
Jane 21/03/22:
You make me laugh…
Laz 18/03/22:
That is internal freedom as when somebody asks me about something about last week, I simply recall it and can speak about it openly without all that spiders web of who was told what and how much!
Jane 21/03/22:
Absolutely agree, not telling lies keeps us free from the spiders web and gives freedom of mind. As you say if only they knew the benefits of the universal laws and how they operate in things like the energies of truth for your own benefit and sanity of mind.
Jane 17/03/22:
The way of future self monitoring people could end up hooked up to a self lie detector. lol.
I am sure the insurance industry is already on that! What do you make of the argument that if one is doing nothing wrong and has nothing to hide then why worry about surveillance?
The problem I see is in its potential abuse when you cannot trust the surveillors.
Laz 18/03/22:
Yes, I agree and even machine overlords would make mistakes!
Jane 17/03/22:
Can you imagine a world run by the impeccable enlightened? I think that was Plato’s ideology and myth.
Laz 18/03/22:
If that could be arranged, yes please 🙂
Laz 13/03/22:
Not quite sure why he thinks celebrity will disappear as an idea though, people will surely still want to “follow” those who are seen to be attractive, or successful, or entertaining.
Jane 17/03/22:
I would have thought it depends on their talents, Maybe the novelty will wear off and this kind of idolatry will disappear?
When he says curiosity based on secrecy will disappear to the dismay of scandal sheets maybe it is because that is what makes celebrity status so fascinating to people, the gossip?
A lot of celebrity today is manufactured illusion that transparency would expose. In knowing everything about them already the mystery would be gone. Maybe there is something in the saying.. “never meet your heroes lest they be found to have feet of clay”
I think a lot of the celebrity culture is a manufactured illusion. Who knows maybe there will be a change in the trends of who people are drawn to “follow”? For example, there are a lot of internet lightworkers out there spreading the word virtually and becoming more popular.
Laz 18/03/22:
I don’t know some people seemingly are born followers and would rather watch others do things than do them their selves.
Jane 17/03/22:
I think there has to be to some degree this difference in personalities, we could not all be leaders nor all followers, it is the duality necessary.
These type are not in it for fame or fortune, but that is a very different breed from celebrity.
Laz 13/03/22:
Self surveillance is an idea I can’t get my head around, I keep thinking he means self censorship, like “I can’t say that out loud as it will be recorded on camera” But it doesn’t quite fit with his writing. What do you make of self surveillance and why Jaques says it would replace the state surveillance? Why will everyone become their own prison guard?
Jane 17/03/22:
We started having things like surveillance for example in shops. Before CCTV you had two types of people those who would steal and those who would not, introducing cameras did not make those likely to thieve any more honest but less likely to behave inappropriately because they were being watched.
I find this interesting…
“REHOVOT, Israel, February 26, 1998–One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality”
But honest people do not need such surveillance. Self serving checkouts are the same kind of thing I guess could be seen as a kind of increased freedom for those who behave themselves?
Laz 18/03/22:
It’s an odd problem for me as I have no personal fear of these surveillance systems, I’m not doing anything which would cause the authorities any concern and I would be allowed to go about my business unhindered. But, and this is where I do have a problem, Philosophically this is backwards. Hypersurveillance for the lowest common denominator is the opposite of fixing the problems with society and will only cause further growth in issues for the state.
I understand that the issues in society are hard to fix, and this is easy to implement but it is also further eroding the trust people have in their governance. Wedded to that is the incompetence of the authorities, and I’m always reminded of the movie Brazil with Michael Palin and Jonathan Pryce, where a simple automated clerical error on someone’s name caused the wrong man to be SWAT teamed at home and hauled away for execution.
I perceive this type of “glitch” happening a lot in a hyper surveillance system. Once again it is humans playing at being god and they will fail at it, just like with the recent vaccine passports that did nothing to stop the spread of the sars-cov-2 virus.
As an addendum, there is also a problem with who watches the watchers, with so many police at the moment being charged with crimes against women it’s unlikely that our authorities controlling these surveillance systems are honest and good people themselves, so why should they get anonymity when the rest of us are under the watchful eye?
Jane 21/03/22:
Every walk of life and profession has the good and the bad, I don’t think they are all like that and that the majority are decent people but unfortunately they all can get tarred with the same brush. To me it is a bit like if there is a serial killer on the loose quite naturally everyone is perceived as a potential serial killer until they are caught. But hopefully public outrage highlights such issues and holds them up to account with the watchers themselves being watched the anonymity is exposed.
I do not think people power can be underestimated anymore as it used to be. The world is changing, I have watched the raising of the vibrations of truth going on for a while now. People really are waking up if not fully in a spiritual sense then in awareness.
Jane 17/03/22
Insurance is already doing this by health monitoring to get cheaper cover or cover at all. Or cars fitted with things like speed checks or dashcams in the same way. In a way many people don’t know what is good for themselves but when we are all treated as if we are only as strong as the weakest link then it is like nanny state on steroids.
I guess it is the insurance companies protecting their outgoings. I think it is self monitoring rather than self censorship? Like becoming your own big brother is watching you.
Some are so thick they will inadvertently film their own bad crimes and make it public for “likes”? Now that is funny when it backfires.
Laz 18/03/22:
Yes I’ve seen a few of these on youtube, and these types are so confused when the police turn up at their door due to their filmed confession and showing off their ill gotten gains!
Laz 13/03/22:
"many people will even claim citizenship of the virtual universe, abandoning citizenship of every real state."
I’m ready for this now to be honest! If I could remain in the UK but also get out from under the stupid government I’d be very happy!!!
Jane 17/03/22:
Isn’t that the idea of the Metaverse? Or does this mean something else?
I can understand how that could work in the virtual world to become borderless or stateless.
But I have thought about a physical world without borders with no nationalism and it may be a future situation as he seems to think but the world is not ready for that yet. I do not see how it could work at this point in time of human evolution or the current climate as societies and cultures are too polarised and at different stages. The far left ideology that there should be no borders and everyone should be able to come to Britain for example is so naïve and blinkered.
Laz 18/03/22:
So it doesn’t make sense looking back at how we have managed our country in the past, but this is not how things will be in the future. Have you heard of Multilateralism?
The idea is that there is a world mind that is handled by individual regions and some things passed down are mandated, while others are suggestions and each region can do it’s own thing with those suggestions.
Jane 21/03/22:
Or is this like the EU with the world mind being the equivalent of the European Union? World mind for several countries with a collective of ideology and laws but not shared identities. I mean that is how peace is kept and the what and why the EU was originally set up for.
Laz 22/03/22:
I’d go for UN rather than EU but you get the idea of an unwanted technocracy 🙂 Only this would be the spider at the centre of the web, it would not be an elected body who is accountable to the people.
Jane 21/03/22:
When you say there is a world mind what do you mean exactly? A globally centralised one? With what origin?
Laz 18/03/22:
In this scheme there is no Great Britain and Ireland, instead our respective identities as countries are removed politically to leave only like the sense of football teams under FIFA, so England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Ireland are all separate identity wise but politically all subject to the same mandates from the central world mind. It’s already happened with devolution of powers used over the last two years.
Jane 21/03/22:
So this is where we show the cultural differences, tribe like, like you say identity stamping? That there is racism like tensions between the Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh is kind of crazy when we are all British?
Laz 22/03/22:
Exactly so if people considered themselves all children of the earth, then there would be no inter-country fighting! Sad part would be though that the country only hangs in there in terms of it’s identify in the community mind. There would be no geo-political status.
Jane 21/03/22:
But any suggestions made from the world mind cannot be dictated and would be democratically considered. The same way Brexit came about? The world does not need a “World Order” as that term is understood. Just an ordered world! Lol.
Laz 22/03/22:
So multilateralism states that some things (perhaps important ones) are dictated, and the leaders of various regions have to perform them. This is the part I don’t like because as you go on to say: “The world does not need a “World Order” as that term is understood. Just an ordered world! Lol.”
If people would actually sort out the root causes of the issues (and I know that’s hard) then all this authoritarian crap would not be needed!
Jane 21/03/22:
I am indifferent to the issue in that I believe everything happens for a reason and the people/natives should decide but it will be interesting to see the Brexit consequences? Either way 🙂 So do you think that if the 16/17 year old right to vote had been introduced for that referendum, it would have gone a different way? Due to different generational perceptions?
Laz 22/03/22:
Absolutely, kids don’t know how the world works at that age, hell they don’t really until they’ve had enough experience to say 30 years old. I know I didn’t understand how a lot of the world actually operated until 2020! Lowering the age is akin to bringing in the idealistic and therefore manipulated votes.
Jane 17/03/22:
In the virtual world however, it could be done because it is not in the physical realm and there are no borders because they are not even a thing.
Laz 13/03/22:
"Individual freedom, constantly increased (in appearance at least) by self-monitoring,"
I just don’t understand this at all. Is he saying that the future is a prison and only the compliant will be able to achieve the freedoms we currently have in 2022 by behaving in accordance with the self monitoring devices? And why is it only in appearance. This is all a bit creepy.
Jane 17/03/22:
I think some societies have always to some degree self monitored by consent, even prior to the invention of technology to do it, but it was in the realm of psychology. The mind realm. It is what keeps law and order from breaking down.
The monitoring was focused on others for security like what are they up to, policemen. There is things like CCTV doing that role now so it brings a level of psychological security, a kind of freedom. But now this technology future is taking it to a different level of monitoring. Self monitoring. Inwards. Is that a negative here or not? Does it mean going inwards to become more aware? Or more self obsessed narcissistic?
I mean some of the self monitoring from one perspective is for the benefit of the individual to say stay healthy but removes the individuals free choice in the way they live. Humans are diverse not all clones. Maybe the compliant will have more freedom by being left alone?
Laz 18/03/22:
That’s the sales pitch for sure, but what if one of the compliants is forgetful and accidentally forgets to say, log their correct amount of exercise for the day and is then punished for it by not being allowed cake! It’s beyond the nanny state, maybe a super nanny state 😀
Jane 17/03/22:
I know that ultimately freedom is a state of mind. Even a shackled prisoner can be free metaphysically. Whatever they do in the physical world I do not believe that freedom can be taken from us in the metaphysical world.
Laz 18/03/22:
I agree for the time being and I am mostly in physical bondage still working from home, but my mind is free. But for how long? It won’t take much for that to be removed through enforced behavioral medication.
Jane 21/03/22:
What do you mean? Like drugging people up to control their thinking? Again I dont think it would work unless you are a blank.
Laz 22/03/22:
That’s interesting, as I thought it would. But now you give me cause for thinking about an experiment…
Jane 17/03/22:
The more I think about your definition I think that the being in the world but not of the world could come about by individualism?
Laz 18/03/22:
Yes, that is my thing 🙂 If we can educate those, who will listen, in Kundalini then it doesn’t matter what propaganda is put out by the state, or what social distancing they enforce to stop us gathering, we all reach the same conclusions individually. Then we can act as the collective individually towards the same goal.
Like I say; evil is a spirit in us that drives people to act in the same way even if they have no formal education, do not meet or know each other, we need to facilitate the same for goodness 🙂
Laz 13/03/22:
"Why share when you must fight?"
This is super strange and conjures up a world where we are all separated from family and friends and have no loyalty to either! I don’t like this 🙁
Jane 17/03/22:
Again I see the inhumane dog eat dog selfish gene rubbish here.
Laz 13/03/22:
"Any collective action will seem unthinkable - and therefore any political change inconceivable"
This is all reading like George Orwell now, but it fails to take into account the human spirit (perhaps because Jaques thinks we don’t have any) as individuals we can all reach the same conclusion ourselves and on our own when presented with the same situation.
Jane 17/03/22:
This seems to be becoming more evident where the elite are concerned. It is like they think the consensus is that we all walking into becoming like mindless robots/machines, but I don’t think we are.
The thing is anything related to the George Orwell stuff is noticed and identified as people are aware like he pre warned us. His book recently flew of the shelves as a revival. There is no element of the spiritual at all in all of this but it cannot be denied as it is part of humanity.
Laz 18/03/22:
You’ve got me thinking now, was there any sign of “god” in 1984? I can’t say that I remember anything and Winston’s resolve faded at the end perhaps because he couldn’t reach that conclusion of
“it’s all in the hands of god, do what ever you like to me. I don’t care about this mortal shell”
Jane 21/03/22:
Apparently he was an atheist raised of Christian culture who was disillusioned with religion, but then it seems so many are, but they seem to make the same mistake I made with that , before recognising the basic fact that spirituality is not the same thing as religion…
"In his novel 1984, George Orwell created a world devoid of freedom and justice, truth and goodness. But there is another void in the book that critics seldom notice: the utter lack of religious faith. The absence of any vestige of religion seems to Christianity's advantage: The Orwellian world is such a desolate, inhuman, and horrifying place because, besides the self-evident reasons given in the narrative, its inhabitants lack the consolations that faith in God can give. When I first read it, I thought: Perhaps only a believer could bear this torture, and even, with God's help, end it. Certainly, the reader can have no doubts about Orwell's rejection of such a world. Yet, the world of 1984 is, in every sense, an Orwellian world. It is the unwanted child, but child nevertheless, of Orwell's own metaphysical assumptions. What is wrong with 1984 is exactly what was wrong with its author's thought"
It could be another case of ” So George, tell me about your mother” 😀
Laz 22/03/22:
So very yes! 🙂
Jane 21/03/22:
The psychologic history of people is absolutely fascinating and does explain their psyche view of the world. I think that due to religious disillusionment they can get stuck in the mental state of Agnosticism. It is that in between phase I went into temporarily but then moved out of.
Laz 22/03/22:
It’s a valid stage in a journey to take a break, but I didn’t stay there 🙂
Jane 21/03/22:
When people take bullshit too seriously in fear they can start to create it as a self fulfilling prophecy. But just being aware of the possibility can be enough to prevent it. Regardless how Orwellian things may seem to be currently going I do not believe it is a fully accurate prediction but as I said it seems to have acted as a conceptual pre warning. Red flag alert for humans.
Laz 22/03/22:
I think you are 100% correct, I have lived the first issue through myself and am now wise to it happening, I’m convinced that many of these truth seekers that wind up committing suicide are taking the bullshit threats against them to seriously and end up losing the plot and killing themselves before they believe they will be killed by others who are using those shamanic techniques.
It’s such an effective weapon to put the person into fight/flight mode as the perpetrators are not culpable at all, either morally or legally and the victim spirals out of control till they kill themselves. It’s the nudge unit stuff again!
Jane 21/03/22:
You know what I have noticed is the mentality of people who write much of this stuff, are usually men and they always have the “apocolyptic” mindset and I wonder is that due to being born in a more violent like male mind or meatbag or just down to personality?
Laz 22/03/22:
I’ve never thought of that before! I would say it is likely more a male issue because men have a better understanding of how each other work mentally and because we are still as a society a patriarchy.
Jane 21/03/22:
Or just not seeing a bigger picture? Because I do not see that! This is the bullshit I don’t buy into, this doom and gloom.
Laz 22/03/22:
You may find that apocalypse is of no interest to the female brain, as the opposite of the above I can appreciate that we think differently. I’m sure there are secrets that each sex has which they keep from each other and largely go unquestioned by either. Put it this way, I’m so much less doom and gloom than Ali is! So on that point at least I don’t see doom and gloom as a male issue 🙂
Jane 21/03/22:
This concept comes from old biblical Christian thinking that seems to have become a collective archetype. As does many of mans psycho-spiritual interpretations that make up such archetypes. Along with that blaming eve one that I have discovered is not just held in the Christian mindset?
Laz 22/03/22:
I think history has certainly had ebb and flow on this topic and different cultures in our history have both celebrated women like the ancient Maltese tribes, and also subjugated women like in Christianity
Jane 21/03/22:
Apocolypse - A prophetic disclosure; a revelation. Any of a number of anonymous Jewish or Christian texts from around the second century bc to the second century ad containing prophetic or symbolic visions, especially of the imminent destruction of the world and the salvation of the righteous.
As I say all such texts are symbolic to me I would say it is destruction of the old to make way for the new and the only apocalypse I am aware of was the one within myself! 🙂
Laz 18/03/22:
I’ve often thought about about writing a sequel to 1984 based in the modern day, it rather seems that more than ever, simply recounting our daily experiences now is that book! In many ways the V for Vendetta movie was a spiritual sequel actually.
Jane 17/03/22:
Take Kundalini, it may be invisible to observation but we know it exists and it is real, so as a part of the natural order of human evolution, it must play a part. A big part. If you do not have the T-shirt then one has no knowledge or experience to even make presumptions.
I would not say he is a balanced scientific philosopher.
Laz 13/03/22:
And this is like my idea of collective individualism, if everyone decides to say “no” on their own then change will occur. I expect to read soon that individual thought will be bred out of us as a species, and that anyone who spontaneously thinks for themselves will be shot!
Jane 17/03/22:
Yes I agree what is within gets projected without.
Individualism does not mean selfishness in fact I see it as the opposite as a state of completeness within and love for your fellow man. So your idea of collective individualism would be like the utopia of love your neighbour as yourself, that is a nice thought 🙂
Laz 18/03/22:
It isn’t original thought but I claim by modern take on it 🙂
Jane 17/03/22:
I can see how the monetary system could become stateless by the cryptocurrencies. If the bitcoin thing takes off globally would that mean people could just refuse to pay things like taxes? Would it mean governments having no financial control over the masses?
Do you think wages would ever be paid in such currency? I guess it would all depend on the employers?
Laz 18/03/22:
So governments are moving towards their own cryptocurrency (CBDC) and I’m sure people will be paid in that, but bitcoin and the other crypto coins will likely all be outlawed, sadly 🙁
Laz 13/03/22:
"No one can force parents, whether biological or adoptive, to respect and love their children long enough to raise them"
Excuse me, what the fuck? Where has this idea come from!
Jane 17/03/22:
This is true and sounds terrible to decent parents but I can see it in a certain section of society. Unfortunately you cannot force crap parents to love or respect their kids which is why there is so much abuse to the point of killing their own children. And so many fucked up kids who become adults. But although there are a small number of such cases I cannot see it becoming some widespread norm for even the average decent parent of the future to not love their kids! That is a fucked up view!
Laz 13/03/22:
As a software designer, Jaques says that I’m to become a star of his circus and a master of the super-empire 😀 Whatever!
Jane 17/03/22:
Yeah I think expertise in technology will be increasingly highly valued in the future. It’s the career to go for! 🙂
Laz 13/03/22:
"At once hypochondriac, paranoid, and megalomaniac, narcissistic and egocentric, the hypernomads will..."
Oh dear, he doesn’t think much of Software designers after all! Mind you he seems to have a pretty dim view of most of the human race and of family. I wonder what his childhood was like? In a doctor Freud way: “Jaques, tell me about your mother?” 😀
Jane 17/03/22:
Lmao. Love that 😀
Would be interesting to psychoanalyse his mind. Determine if this really is coming from a conscious awareness state of imagination, fantasising or prophesising? He was born a twin, brother, has a sister and his family were Jewish. All I could find 🙂
Well the more one “monitors” things like their health the more obsessed they become and things like paranoia and hypochondria is set up. The more one focuses on themselves the more narcissistic they can become so it is like a kind of social engineering to me.
The bulk of this self monitoring of health and self repairing stuff would not need to be developed technologically if people just had their own Kundalini flow. That I would say could be the ultimate insurance cover? Lol. The ultimate in natural self monitoring.
Laz 18/03/22:
Yes, although it’s a big ask, and the masses would most likely turn their noses up at such a concept right now, let alone learn and practice, but we can hope 🙂
Jane 17/03/22:
There would be no fraud amongst the enlightened. False insurance fraud would be zero for them. But would that make it any cheaper? Thing is if people could naturally overcome things like illness or disease and not need insurance cover for drugs or treatment then big pharma’s mercantile order would collapse. Along with much of the medical industry. Especially if people were aware of the obscure laws regarding dis-ease and psycho conditions being caused by low vibrational environments or could connect to their own inner therapists and healers.
Laz 18/03/22:
Yes, I agree 🙂
Jan3 17/03/22:
In an ideal world it would be great if everyone could just plug in to their own Kundalini flow 🙂
Laz 13/03/22:
Jaques seems to have an obsession with insurance too, I don’t get it myself. I’d happily take the risk to be uninsured and live on my wits alone! I only buy insurance where I absolutely have to! Maybe this says more about him than the future itself.
Jane 17/03/22:
I would say a lot of this stuff maybe says more about him than the future itself 🙂
Well I can see why the masses will be convinced that is the way to go. Insurance is based on the psychology of fear. Only by insuring against all eventuality will people even be allowed to feel secure.
The elite are the masters in the manipulation of human psychology, using techniques like their nudging theory approach, part of what I see as low level mind “sorcery” be that for the good positive intent or the negative…
Laz 18/03/22:
I’m not sure, I’ve been able to see through the manipulations since I was little and I have learnt how to defend myself from them over the years and it wasn’t that hard.
Jane 21/03/22:
I have told you that I do not believe that you are like the average person at all, I don’t know if that is because of your childhood, upbringing, personality or individuality of psyche? Or some kind of metaphysical mutation?
Because most people especially as children cannot see through the manipulations and do not learn how to defend themselves from it. I would say there are a lot of people even as adults do not gain these abilities. They are blanks! Something you have never been 🙂 I have got that T shirt as well 😀
Laz 22/03/22:
Yes I agree, but I still have hope for them. If only they can break free of their fear 🙂
Laz 18/03/22:
Like you point out most are fearful and I think that holds the key, if you are brave and stand up you find it wasn’t as bad as you thought, then you can build a portfolio of brave acts that embolden one to go further till you reach that point where you are called to the international company’s CEO’s office and he proceeds to try and tell you off, but you are so resistant to the bullshit that instead you cause him to storm out of his own meeting room and leave you there wondering if that makes you the CEO now 🙂
Jane 17/03/22:
Nudge theory is a concept in behavioral economics, political theory, and behavioral sciences[1] that proposes positive reinforcement and indirect suggestions as ways to influence the behavior and decision-making of groups or individuals. Nudging contrasts with other ways to achieve compliance, such as education, legislation or enforcement
So one can easily see how although designed for the positive of use, this same methodology could also easily be turned by the unscrupulous into abuse!
Laz 18/03/22:
Exactly our own government has nudge unit for fucks sake! The 77th Brigade for one.
Jane 17/03/22:
And yes I agree that he does seem to have specific obsessions that he seems to focus on.
Laz 13/03/22:
Interesting that he calls out Megalopolises, have you seen the megacities on the move series of short films? they had a solution for the refusers; Ghettos!
Jane 17/03/22:
No I cannot say I have. But I have noticed how many major rich cities have ghetto like areas in their orbit as if some invisible force is separating them.
Laz 18/03/22:
I invite you to have a look 🙂 This is one of four short films I think:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSvb_ZTYS6A
Laz 13/03/22:
It surprises me how much time Jaques is giving to piracy as I would have thought that a Social Credit System would have put that problem to bed! Although I don’t think he’s mentioned it yet himself and instead just refers to transparency!
Jane 17/03/22:
I do not get this about the piracy and its connection to a Social Credit system? Can you explain it further?
Laz 18/03/22:
So the social credit system is the very individual nudge unit, it will control behaviour through technology and access to goods and services, It is brilliantly illustrated in the the black mirror episode Nosedive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrpK90bHO2U
Laz 15/03/22:
"Sexuality will be in the kingdom of pleasure, reproduction that of machines"
Stepping now in the brave new world of Huxley, and the Bokanovsky process!
Do you think that consciousness is explicitly connected to a body?
Jane 17/03/22:
I honestly cannot answer that, I mean I have experienced my consciousness disconnected from my body but does that mean it could be separated from my physical meatbag and exist independent of my brain? Could a human minds thoughts/consciousness be downloaded though? I really don’t know.
Bokanovsky's Process is a fictional process of human cloning depicted in Aldous Huxley's 1932 novel Brave New World. The process is described as being applied to fertilized human eggsin vitro, causing them to split into identical genetic copies of the original. The process can be repeated several times, though the maximum number of viable embryos possible is 96, with 72 being a "good average
Maybe best kept fictional. 🙂
Laz 13/03/22:
All Jaques’ speculation about cloning suggests that he thinks otherwise! Also if a man-machine is grown instead of born this might be a super-blank human without consciousness at all!
Jane 17/03/22:
I think this is what is referred to in saying that with men as machines…
You said: “If he’s going to use these three as indicators of historical events that can be analysed to prophecy future events I think he’s going to get it wrong!”
I agree that using certain indicators he will inevitably get some things wrong…
So as an example I notice on p169 ,When he wrote this there was such a thing as “The G8”. where he talks about things from a global perspective he talks about the future regarding the G8 countries and says “we shall see them again at the Security Council and meetings of the G8”. Things have changed since then.
“The Group of Eight (G8) was an inter-governmental political forum from 1997 until 2014.[1] It had formed from incorporating the country of Russia into the Group of Seven, or G7, and returned to its previous name after Russia was removed in 2014.In March 2014 Russia was suspended indefinitely following the annexation of Crimea, whereupon the political forum name reverted to G7″
So today there is no G8, it has been reduced down to meetings between the G7 countries. Basically they kicked Russia out for being naughty. lol. He also says that as that global power level, Nigeria will join the G8 to form a G9, but then goes on to say about Nigeria………
“if it still exists, which seems unlikely” But then says “Together these G9 nine nations will constitute an informal world government which I shall return to in the third wave of the future” So now he is not making sense to me anymore? Is this a hint of him not getting it quite right from his perspectives? Because there is no G8 now nevermind a future G9. 😀 And I do not understand, why did he say/think that Nigeria is unlikely to still exist?
Laz 18/03/22:
Yeah, I don’t know either.
Jane 17/03/22:
You said: “History obeys laws that allow us to make predictions and channel its course” “Wow! that’s some claim. Can you imagine if this were actually true? and yes I am suggesting that it can’t be done! But we will see”
I think you were right there too 🙂
I can understand a lot about what he says in things like design of future technology but I do not think he is 100% in accuracy in other ways. I am wary of what I take as his word on a lot of things about what he envisages for the future, now. Like they are just his assumptions from now on. As with yourself I was starting to wonder where he was going with all of this with regard for the fate and future of humanity through his predictions.
Listening to him we are headed for becoming brainless and soulless commodities with no humanity left in us. I mean ffs! In my indifferent detached perspective at times I may see humanity as a zoo or a playground but it is meant to be an affectionate take as a funny analogy, but one thing I do not see it as is a circus. In the sense he views it as such…This terminology ‘Circuses’, ‘Theatres’ ,”spectators’ ,’putting on a play’, ‘theatre companies and troupes’ ‘prop assistants’ is strange and he seems to see it all as a “production”! Even down to the individual as a commodity on a production line.
Laz 18/03/22:
Yes I think this is what marks him as an “elite”, if not in status, then certainly in perspective. I wonder though if his intended audience also share this view of humanity? I fear they might and look down on us performing freaks in the ring while they crack their whip.
Jane 17/03/22:
To me this is Darwin level of reduction in taking the human out of it by seeing it like that dog eat dog world of animals, the survival of the fittest – or as a selfish gene with Dawkins. I don’t buy that shit! I do not subscribe to such theories 🙂 Despite my indifference I am a servant of the Source and I transcended the Messiah complex phase thinking I was here to save humanity a long time ago but although I no longer feel a part of the world I observe, I retain that stance where it is a humanity of Source and I would still want to save it in an instant if I was granted such a power and it was at risk, anything done for the all is not taking sides 🙂 In Christianity there is the term “what would Jesus do” ? For me it is “what would Source think?”
Laz 18/03/22:
I love that 🙂 I also went through that messiah phase and while I had prepped for it in my reading it was none the less seductive as a result. I can relate to saving the world still also and as I am still in it, I find myself even today trying to make the truth come out and to protect those who need it.
So I’m kind of responsible for this graduate at work now, mostly because everyone else seems to have an issue with him and they bully him.
Jane 21/03/22
Do you think that they just want to palm him off onto you so they don’t have to have the responsibility or do you think people see you as a natural mentor? You always seem to get that job!
Laz 18/03/22:
So being me I take a stand on his behalf as he is not able to. His name is D and he is from Bulgaria and I sense a certain amount of racism towards him from the others, but I find him honest and easy to talk to. He’s bright and while he doesn’t know all that he needs to for the job he has, I’m prepared to help him where as the others don’t have time for him and just criticize his junior knowledge and performance.
Jane 21/03/22:
This sounds very familiar. Like the way you were given the role to look after the autistics? Not saying he is that bad to deal with but the same kind of scenario of caretaking.
Laz 22/03/22:
It’s a difficult one to answer as no-one has been forthcoming. I do always end up in the supporting role for the underdog at work, and that I believe is the universe calling me to perform it, rather than any human. I’m happy to comply, I have the experience and skill to do it, and have grown to like D and gain his trust. I hope I am a good ambassador for this software engineering role around the world, even though my lot are bad examples of how to do it!
Laz 18/03/22:
It is not a nice environment for him to have as a first job out of Uni and there is no graduate plan for him so he’s just chucked in the deep end with everyone with experience and when he doesn’t perform he is picked on 🙁
Jane 17/03/22:
"The more solitary a man is, the more he will consume....No one will dream of concerning himself with other people, why share when you must fight?"
Is this selfishness or a distortion of individualism?
Being individualistic or more solitary, does not mean being selfish, greedy and not caring about anyone but oneself! In fact I would say the opposite is true the more solitary the less he will consume?
"It will put the finishing touches to what the market had begun since its origins- making every minute of life an opportunity to produce, to trade, or to consume mercantile goods"
Yes what it was created by mainly the elite for, just materialism and over consumerism.
" all time spent on anything but consuming- or on accumilating consumer objects in a different way- will be considered lost"
I get that the time consuming is shortened by the modern day convenience of tech. But the time spent on anything but consuming being considered lost is pretty extreme and a big part of the problem. Do people consider time spent on inner work on things like meditation, lost?
I would have thought meditation will become more common as a practice. As with a lot of the intelligencia where it comes to pscho-spiritual knowledge and understanding i definitely find it lacks the T shirt 🙂
Laz 18/03/22:
Yes 🙂 I still feel like his writing is appealing upwards to his superiors, like he is telling them what they want to hear, and then there’s me at the bottom looking up thinking this is rubbish 😀
Jane 21/03/22:
Well his roles do seem to have been positions of pandering to the elite. The suck up role to egos 😀 The sensible ones seeing right through them and that the emperor is not wearing any clothes 🙂
Jane 17/03/22:
Where were the elite taking us for financial gain? I would like to think that maybe we are at the turning point, away from the ” violence of money ” as he put it? What I notice about the elite is that they tend to have knowledge in limited areas of expertise, they are rarely “Jack’s of all trades” and the Jacks have a greater advantage over the limiting expertise of those with the understanding of just a few trades. Or just the one. I don’t think they see a complete picture?
Laz 18/03/22:
Thank god! as this means their plans no matter how well conceived are flawed!
Jane 21/03/22:
So flawed they can never succeed 🙂 The flaws come from their ignorance of the big picture in things like the obscure laws underlying everything. The blanks are predictable and none more so than by looking at their history but an awakened mind cannot be predicted and an enlightened mind is out of their bounds to even try 🙂
Jane 17/03/22:
"You can refer to the most powerful, rich, or talented people within a particular group, place, or society as the elite"
Being powerful, rich or talented is a definition of being elite but that does not make them the best of a group or society. It is morality and intention that should determine that. You know like can they remove the sword from the stone being the ultimate test. 🙂
Laz 18/03/22:
Not a chance! have you seen them in interviews? They are horrible people
Jane 17/03/22:
P 172 – 3. He talks about how we will be watching ourselves and here about how things will become watchers and we then he says…
"These watchers will not spring forth ready-made from the imagination of crazed researchers or technicians touched by the hand of God they will be responding to the financial imperatives"
Now I have always perceived that higher part of me as a “watcher” including watcher of myself So the spiritual understanding of the ultimate watcher is what they call God, maybe this is symbolic in some way to the spiritual future of humanity, metaphysically. As in people will stop responding to the financial imperatives?
Laz 18/03/22:
I hope so, that would give me some hope
Jane 17/03/22:
I can accept a lot of this future will come to pass but I do not think that humanity is fully on the path that Jacques envisaged. As you say too there seems to be no recognition of the spirit or soul of humanity. Some may dream of becoming like his machines but I do not think that is the case for the awakened.
Laz 18/03/22:
Being creative and having freedom to be creative is one of the things i hold closest to my heart so I would shrivel up and probably commit some horrible crime as a way of lashing out if I were forced to behave like a machine!
Jane 21/03/22:
I find the abstract mental realms of mind fascinating in the different ways creative minds, or their imaginations…think! I have never really considered myself creative.
Laz 22/03/22:
I would, maybe not in the traditional artist way (although you may have undisclosed talents there) but your thinking alone is creative and why we are able to have discussions. Honestly if you were not creative your responses to me would not make for good conversation 🙂
Jane 21/03/22:
I don’t think that would even be possible for the awakened never mind the enlightened. You would need to be a blank of mind.
Laz 22/03/22:
What worries me is that these are the types who get thrown in jail or worse, bullet to the brain!
Jane 17/03/22:
Humans are in a search for security and entertainment maybe, but I do not believe to the kind of degradation this talks of because man will not give up or lose his humanity.
Laz 18/03/22:
A good portion of us will do so, but not the enlightened 🙂 It’s old history unfortunately and I had a revelation recently when watching world war two footage of Germans killing people (don’t ask) and I suddenly got this sense that these people walking to their death, knowing that they are about to be shot and killed, do nothing to avoid their fate. Like they are the robot personality, and there is clearly something to it because I see that way of thinking in people all the time. They obey authority and do what ever it requires of them like slaves.
Jane 21/03/22:
Why do you say don’t ask? When you know I will. 😀
I have watched a lot of that stuff about the Hitler years and his henchmen, to determine what made them tick I find it fascinating. It is always in black and white old footage on the History channel. I can remain indifferent to the suffering by detachment but the horror of it all shows just how low that kind of mentality can go. When the basic qualities of humanity itself is noticeably absent! But I still cannot judge it even as I watch it or read the his-story of Adolf’s life. Now if ever a “mummy pod” was needed it was here! 🙂
Laz 18/03/22:
I could never be like that, I’d be shot trying to run away, I could never inhabit that mindset of; there is no escape, this is it, I deserve this, or it was meant to be, or what’s worse “someone will stop this”. My mind would not let me shut down like that and take what is coming, I’d be either fighting or running or hopefully never in that position in the first place, perhaps due to my intelligence and creativity.
Jane 17/03/22:
This stuff sounds cold, clinical and calculating as a future to me. The elite acting as sorcerers that think they can exploit and manipulate but they really do not understand man.
Laz 18/03/22:
I didn’t pick up on any sorcerer vibes in this chapter of the book, why do you think they act as sorcerers?
Jane 21/03/22:
So magic to me is basically an intentional manipulation or influencing of the mind of another. Using autosuggestion, persuasion or influence for some gain. I guess it is the egos game in life to some degree? I think this goes on continuously but unnoticed by the majority of egos in everyday life.
Laz 22/03/22:
Given your definition I agree completely, and while those under it’s influence may not notice, they sure do as they have been suggested to do! I had a big thing for understanding Derren Brown a while back. I watched all his TV programmes, and went to two of his shows.
I tried to be one of the ones to go up on stage for some stunt, and I caught his frisbee that he threw out, but rather than call on me when I got it, he called out for me to throw it on. I’m guessing he knew somehow that I would not comply on stage like his other stooges do.
I was so damn keen to understand how he made people do things but for years I couldn’t figure it out. then when I got his book I read that when he explains how he get’s people to do things he doesn’t necessarily tell you the truth, but this is another level of illusion in that you believe you’ve been told how a “trick” works and so you are satisfied that you have an answer (even if it doesn’t make sense) and this sends most people back to sleep.
So I learnt to stop trusting what he says and instead to look at how he selects people to take part in his act. I believe that he is looking for that personality that wants to do as they are told and appeal to power, they will do so from even a suggestion, anyone who would question or doubt that they have been given an instruction and think for themselves is not involved in the act.
I remember seeing one act live where he got someone to sit in this curtained booth, and it had pens and markers and paper and stuff in it. and he told us all a story about some phantom that would descend into the booth once the curtains were shut and would make a mess. Well when he sat the person down in the booth and closed the curtains, guess what happened?
The phantom appeared to be in the booth making a mess drawing on everything and flapping the curtains. Then when Derren approached the booth and pulled back the curtains there was the innocent person looking around shocked at all the stuff having been chucked about and graffiti on everything!
Of course they denied that it was anything to do with them and they had seen the phantom!
Jane 21/03/22:
At it’s more extreme it could be seen in things like grooming or gaslighting at its best in things like genuine psycho spiritual counselling. The elite are masters in this sense, In areas such as retail they are so good at the psycho behaviour level and have use every trick in the book, like an expert seller can convince the gullible that they desperately need something they do not by anything from subtle hints to a sustained attack on their psyche in many areas including advertising on shopping channels and in retail stores.
Things like nudging to me comes into the same category, it is a technique that can be dark or light, so used for peoples betterment or for worse depending on the motive and intention behind the practice. All we are is a consciousness, all is mind where man is concerned. The psychology of the average blank is well known because they are so predictable being creatures of habit. Sorcery is when those who have advanced knowledge over others can either put it to use or abuse, by taking advantage over those who are ignorant of that knowledge. It is used by the elite like some mathematical formula of the mind in all aspects of other peoples lives, including the nudge department.
I see all mind manipulation as a form of lower magic and when it is by professionals/elite I see it as a form of sorcery. They know what they are doing being consciously aware of their actions but that should mean it is subject to their conscience in how they use that power over others. These people, the elite are meant to be the modern day shaman, and I can see how they operate, to me the question is always one of, Is it black sourcery or is it white? The intention behind it determines that. On the path during our apprenticeship we are tested on these things. That is what i believe ultimately separates the wheat from the chaff.
When it reaches a level of Source shamanics we are tested to assess how we would use such powers over others to see if we make the grade. As I have said before we gain knowledge, insight and skills an ego could only dream of to use but as grey Jedi Knights, we no longer have any self egoic input or will to use them, as we are servants of Source with unquestionable loyalty to the will of Source, that has to come from the Source itself.
Laz 22/03/22:
Totally, I actually feel ill these days when I think I have imposed my will on someone. I’m keenly tuned in and the will of wicked people has no sway over me.
Jane 17/03/22:
The elite are topless and as with many others in the fields of science, psychology and even philosophy, they are missing a whole other dimension when they do not have the T shirt. 🙂
When he says “the end of history”? How can history end? That would mean an end of time?
I see it more as the end of an era maybe the polarities like a centre point between dictatorship and democracy and their peoples. I agree that you cannot force dictatorship and their people to convert to a democracy especially not by bombing the shit out of a country. It has to be an organic process that comes from a cry within such a system, but equally I don’t think that you can force a dictatorship on an already democratised system as the people outnumber the elites and rulers.
So it will take a process of both sides finding it’s own level I guess? From a point of indifference and not taking sides I see it as a battle of the wills of humanity.
Laz 18/03/22:
I take a dim view of humanity here. The elite are like the 0.1 percent of us then at the other end I see that 7% of us are enlightened, but the rest the 92.9% of humanity are these robot like people who have been educated to be this way.
I see the mindset in my colleagues, it’s both a view of I have no choice and must do as I’m told to get on in life, and also I have no critical thinking and could not possibly think my way out of my position!
There must be a percentage in there of swing voters to be fair, but I’ve no idea how many there would be until they show themselves!
Jane 21/03/22:
"Critical mass. When a new idea is being introduced into a group of people, even if many think the idea is good, they will be loathe to adopt the idea until they are persuaded that others are moving, then their is a rush to adopt the idea. The effect is a slow start until a critical mass is reached, then a runaway snowball effect takes place.For a critical mass to be reached, you typically need between 5% and 25% of the population. The point where critical mass is achieved is often called the 'tipping point'"
"Pope Francis on Saturday issued a new constitution for the Vatican's central administration, known as the Curia, stating that any baptized lay Catholics, including women, can head Vatican offices. Until now, most Vatican departments have been headed by male clerics, usually cardinals"
Laz 22/03/22:
I must say that I cannot stand this pope (Francis is it?) Did you see what he said the other day?
"Our imagination appears increasingly concentrated on the representation of a final catastrophe that will extinguish us’ – then, departing from his prepared speech, he added: ‘such as that which would happen with an eventual atomic war' ‘The “day after”, if there will still be days and human beings – we will have to start again from nothing,’"
This is so far away from the teaching of the bible so as to not even be recognisable as the thinking of a Christian! He is a puppet of someone, and it isn’t the divine!
Jane 17/03/22:
You know how my mind works and sees things symbolically….well my thoughts when I read this…History will end, With the term “HIS tory” it means from “his” perspective of events as it was always usually men that wrote it. The term “HER story” is from the feminine perspective so maybe that is symbolic? As in it will equalise into more of a balance? An end to the masculine energy dominance maybe? And I mean the masculine energy in both men and women.
Laz 18/03/22:
I like that idea 🙂 Herstory could begin afterwards and it would be interesting to see how the toxic feminine that men are afraid of letting out does things differently 🙂
I say toxic feminine as I do not see “power hunger” as a sex thing, and instead the women that make it to the top will be similarly motivated as the men were to do underhand things to get up to the top. Mind you, this may just be the case in the Patriarchal system. If it were Matriarchically dominant then it might display different characteristics. But then I remember at how Ali and her sister were with their mother and grandmother who all lived together as a matriarchal system in the same house! Was quite scary at times!!!
Jane 21/03/22:
Lmao. That was quite an oestrogen filled home, sounds like a bloody coven. Lol. Just kidding. No disrespect to the women in your life intended 🙂 But I could just see you surrounded by a group of cackling witches and I know you experienced something like that in your psychodramas 😀
Laz 22/03/22:
You’ve read my journals, I called them a Coven myself 🙂
Jane 21/03/22:
I agree that the matriarchal system could be equally as scary as the patriarchal one if power goes to the heads on either side. It needs a balance of both within the one system, or at least within the leaders.
Laz 22/03/22:
Yeah, it’s all about the distance from that ideal Rebis model, either polar opposite be it male or female is a scary personality!
Jane 17/03/22:
"Insurance against a broken heart or the denial of maternal love"
How can the insurance compensate for such emotions? Will they create “mummy pods” like wombs for people to sit in? : D
"Sexuality the kingdom of pleasure, reproduction that of machines"
Whoa this is going a bit too far! I accept the kingdom of pleasure bit but not the idea of machines reproducing humans?
" The human being will thus have become a commercial object"
Oh my goodness this really does reduce a human to nothing and removes the human aspect of humanity.
" Some will even seek to overtake the human species with a life- form endowed with a different and superior intelligence"
What is superior intelligence? it is not due to some creepy AI intelligence because I think real superior intelligence that overtakes the human species will come from the enlightenment of the human consciousness. The Adam Kadmon type of concept in the ‘light shall set you free’. The real sense of the term advanced human to the real aliens – which is within all of us!
"It will not accept the fact that earth is at once the prison and the oasis of humankind"
It all depends on a persons perspective, if you are made to believe/convinced that it is one or the other. One man’s hell is another man’s heaven, all depends on their own individual mindset and their assemblage point. Most are prisoners of their own minds.
"The moon will be colonised; a little later the interior of the solar system will be colonised. But we shall not be capable of going much further"
I dont think man will get much further than the moon…..not physically.
"So it will then attempt- it already is doing so- the last astounding feat: exiting from oneself. It is there that man will rediscover his dialogue, endlessly resumed, with his own sexuality. He will present himself as an object in order to go and live elsewhere- anywhere that is not himself"
This sounds to me like that fear people have of coming to face themselves! but by transcending oneself in consciousness he rediscovers himself! I still think this need to explore space is the psychospiritual need to find oneself within. Maybe people just need a good psychonaut trip? 😀
Laz 18/03/22:
It would be beneficial for some, but others will just be afraid of it and thus themselves 🙂
Jane 17/03/22:
"but It comes down to not a question of technology but of the nature of consciousness"
Yes I agree with that. The nature of consciousness, the greatest mystery of all. The Source 🙂
"Like all industrial objects, he will no longer be able to die, since he will never have been born" however .." man will succeed in resisting this prospect"
So he does give some credit to humanity’s intelligence. It is looking like the California crew are taking control of information, now they have banned Meghan Markle’s sisters account? Why? Again kettle, pot when they criticise governments for censoring.
Laz 18/03/22:
Didn’t know, don’t care, accept at the level of cancel culture is a scourge on humanity. They’ll end up cancelling themselves and then it will all be over 🙂
Jane 21/03/22:
Yes that was what I meant, when I said why, I was not interested in the trivial details of the celebrity playground spats just the fact the California crew at the core companies have the power to just censor or cancel people in this way. If someone don’t like what people have to say to them or take offence on social media I thought they had the individual control to just block them? Job done! But then I guess that does not get them the mass public attention they crave for their perceived victimhood or keep them in the celebrity spotlight, the manufactured illusion.
Jane 17/03/22:
Apparently now Kanye West has been (temporarily) suspended from instagram…
Laz 18/03/22:
Again, had no idea although Kayne is an interesting one 🙂 I’m more into reading about how there is a new battery technology far superior to the current generation 🙂 Iron-air batteries in case you are interested, now with reverse rusting!!!
Jane 21/03/22:
"Scientists have discovered an alternative to costly and environmentally damaging lithium-ion batteries – used in everything from smartphones to electric cars – in the form of a 140-year old technology.
Iron-air batteries, first invented in 1878, hold a far higher energy density to lithium-ion batteries at a fraction of the cost, however until now they have impractical for recharging purposes due to rusting.
A team from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology now claims to have fine-tuned a process known as “reverse rusting” in order to allow the new design to charge and discharge energy."
Yes that is interesting, but I know that invention is continuously evolving in line with humanities greatest needs. The blanks go about oblivious but the capable humans rise to the occasion in the hour of need. It is that stimulation in action mind progressive evolution which is why i think so many underestimate mans potential to adapt and evolve. I actually think a whole new type of energy will eventually be discovered …if it hasn’t already?? It is also interesting because In my symbology my first comparison of the human energy system was to that of a “battery”, with its balanced positive and negative charges ( male/female, yin/yang) required for a flow of Kundalini energy. I experience the battery in my own system as a closed circuit. So i am trying to apply it here….
"The most commonly used rust removing chemical is phosphoric acid. The solution creates a chemical reaction when applied to rust converting it to a water-soluble compound that can be scrubbed away quickly and easily"
Sounds very alchemical when done by this method. Reverse rusting allows a new design to charge and discharge energy.
The basic principle of operation is reversible rusting, the firm says. While discharging, the battery breathes in oxygen from the air and converts iron metal to rust. While charging, the application of an electrical current converts the rust back to iron and the battery breathes out oxygen.
“When you reverse the electrical current on the battery, it un-rusts the battery"
I guess I could relate that somehow to the human alchemical process ? Lol. 🙂
Laz 22/03/22:
Awesome creative insight 🙂 Yes, the unrusting of the self, returning the human to full power by reversing the things which caused the ego to grow out of control and corrupt the human vessel.
Jane 17/03/22:
I mean ffs! Surely their very actions of censorship are waking people up? It is becoming a far cry from the Zuckerbergs original internet intentional philosophy? It just makes me wonder what happened to America’s so preciously held first amendment?
Laz 18/03/22:
I’ve been hearing a lot about America and the Anglo American deal. It rather seems that the British Empire want their colony back and free speech is just not very British!
Jane 21/03/22:
Lol. That sounds a bit like Putin. Yeah, as you pointed out we are an odd lot in little Britain : D
Laz 18/03/22:
We find that kind of thing vulgar and restrict it to the lower classes, instead us lords and ladies lie to each other to be polite, then stab people in the back, in a civilized manner! I’m fairly sure that my team want D to leave, so that is why they are being horrible (in a nice way) to him 🙁
Jane 21/03/22:
What tactics are they using? Do you think it is similar to the the Irish guy type of prejudice you dealt with before?
Laz 22/03/22:
Yes it feels very similar!
Laz 22/03/22:
So the big boss the other day in a team meeting launched into a monolog about people being able to do the job and get on without stressing relationships with others. It was weird and out of place, and I got the impression he was targeting D, and all those who know D would likely feel the same.
There’s N who just won’t give D the time of day and puts him down to others. Generally D’s questions on the messaging system go unanswered. Oh the other week our boss had a go at D for not fulfilling a task he had no idea how to do, and I stepped in as I had helped him, and pointed out that D had not done the task before, that I had helped him and I that had also assured D that if he had tried his best then the rest could be worked out following the work’s submission, as civilized people will negotiate and support to get the incomplete work finished off for the benefit of the team.
Of course I told you about P copying over his work too I think already. So no one is accusing him of anything directly, but I get the impression they want to upset him so he just leaves before they have to fill in any paperwork. One more thing, today I’ve been put on another project that is starting up (instead of staying on the team with D) I think they know I am protecting him!!!
Jane 17/03/22:
Something else I have noticed is my “dear diary” ( talking to myself) entries, they have almost stopped. I very rarely even pick it up just lately, I ramble on to you instead 🙂
Laz 18/03/22:
I am the virtual assistant of diaries, I give commentary on your entries 🙂
“I don’t think you meant to write that, Jane!”
Jane 21/03/22:
Is that how you see it? That is interesting, lol. To be honest I had not thought about it like that. We seem to be giving commentary on each others commentary, a kind of …running commentary 😀
Laz 22/03/22:
Yes, Like the divine trying to find itself in each of us 🙂
Jane 21/03/22:
I do find this two way mind bouncing gives clarification on a lot of things, like a mind check and balance of what seem to me at times to be like me just rambling on 😀
Jane 28/03/22:
Chapter 5.
So I can recognise what he is describing in this chapter but I think that when things stop moving in the exact way as predicted these assumptions become less accurate to the point they seem to lose the plot! When one sees how many things like the geopolitical and economic landscape has changed drastically in the past month alone, it is getting beyond all recognition and his predictions more questionable. Like you pointed out in chapter 1 and I agreed.
There has always been things he talks about like the piracy, drug wars and lawlessness in some places going on, but I don’t see it going as far as he predicts.
Laz 05/04/22:
Do you mean his hyperconflict prediction at the end?
Jane 06/04/22:
Yes
Jane 28/03/22:
What brings out the worst in some in the human race also brings out the best in others. I don’t think they get that if consideration is given to the past few generations alone, I can clearly recognise the progressive evolution in humanities consciousness 🙂
Maybe that is because their mindsets are focused solely on this kind of mercantile, political order. And maybe they are used to considering pure blanks who conform to their ideologies whereas I would say things have changed so do not underestimate the awakened 🙂
Laz 05/04/22:
I would dearly love to agree with you, but I’m still not seeing the great awakening rising to counter the great reset 🙁
Jane 28/03/22:
Russia will attempt to recover it's global status and will consider itself in the front line against Islam and China
I know Russia has a thing against Islam, so does China! They are in camps there! but I wouldn’t say Russia is against China? Especially so now. I do not understand where he got this idea from as these countries have always been tight economically and in many ways ideologically. And now China as an energy hungry country has become one of it’s only allys.
"Military alliances will form...Russia with the European union"
Cannot see that happening any time soon. Lol. but who knows? It is interesting to see the over 60’s in Russia who are all for the war, they are being brainwashed by TV propaganda because that is their only means of media. The younger generations with a bigger picture have a different perspective. But these people are split between themselves ideologically. There really is a generational divide between the old dinosaur rigid mentality and the progressive younger generations in a lot of countries.
Laz 05/04/22:
I think there many aspects going on with people here and statistics can lie about such things. I am against all forms of war and see it as an absolute failure of humanity, which is why I can’t take sides. But alas we are living in a time where our leaders are corrupt power hungry idiots, so they will see war differently, and the masses cheer on an support one side or the other. One thing that I cannot stand is this polarisation of thought that we’ve had over the last three years or so, and every issue is presented as for or against and no other views are permitted. It is a sad state of affairs and is worryingly totalitarian as I see it and those supposed waking masses go along supporting the “current thing”
Jane 28/03/22:
When you look at the power control around the world, I can completely understand why Covid was seen and in some cases hoped as a possible boomer remover 😀 But I honestly do see the facts of the Russia/Ukraine conflict from both sides and through the propaganda narrative being pushed by both so I can see and understand both perspectives and do not take sides 🙂 I did find it funny thinking about Putin’s little manhood problems when I was looking at the territory in the playground he is trying to reclaim, it does look a bit like he is going for a dick extension! Lmao.
He says specifically about the USA…
violates many rules of the democracy it aspires to dictate to others
I would say that it is not just the US that does this but many so called democracies.
Laz 05/04/22:
Yeah, I would agree. long live Ingsoc! 🙁
Jane 28/03/22:
The world is watching others and itself more and putting a spotlight onto such blatant hypocrisy which in turn means they are being held up to accountability. Again people power. It is the will and spirit of humanity. Maybe Jacques was oblivious to that as a force of nature, too?
Laz 05/04/22:
The spirit of humanity seems to be hiding in a small minority, perhaps those protesting outside the oil depots at Heathrow! They are being treated appallingly by the authorities who say they want rid of fossil fuels, and the same ones who shut down air travel over Covid only a few months ago. I’m beginning to see just how there is no cohesive plan being rolled out in this country and instead it’s lots of competing initiatives like lower carbon emissions but fly around in private jets, raise fuel prices to drive people away from fossil fuels but make electric alternatives out of reach for most, in terms of cars or heat pumps. herding cats comes to mind!
Jane 06/04/22:
Lol. Yes I agree.
Jane 28/03/22:
But this is a perfect example of what I see as the raising of the vibrations of truth. Because with the collective awake/awareness, this truth is being realised. The self surveillance is not just a negative concept. It has deeper significance and goes in both directions. Internally and externally as individuals, societies, countries, cultures and maybe even as a human race? It is almost like that so feared inner self exploration as with all such fears to confront is being sought via external projection? I am wondering now if maybe the mass psychosis is actually just a collective psychodrama? And many will come through it far more sane? Like a wake up call?
Laz 05/04/22:
There is no doubt in my mind that humans have the psychological shit kicked out of them from birth now and you are right that many are living a psychodrama more vivid and lucid than any I’ve had. When I still see masked individuals cross over the road to avoid me as I walk towards them, I know that they are mentally unwell, and rather than come through it sane I think they have a permanent psychosis now which will need medicating. But that would go against the general direction that society is moving in.
Jane 28/03/22:
The US could fall prey to a theocratic isolationism in which democracy would be no more than a shadowy presence
I think I may have seen this coming already.
Laz 05/04/22:
In the USA they already have it I would say, and the UK is not far behind.
Jane 29/03/22:
When Trump was in power he positioned two new supreme court judges. Life long jobs. They were both strict right wing conservative (old testament bible bashers) it tipped the balance between left leaning judges and right. This has now given a majority say in the US law of this mentality. I notice already those energies playing out with places like Texas making new laws against women and the attitude towards things like birth control in general. I believe it has been described as Taliban Texas 😀 I thought the US exceptionalism was set up as a democracy that separates church and state?
Laz 05/04/22:
The USA is not a Democracy, it is instead a constitutional republic. That darn term Democracy is pernicious!
Jane 06/04/22:
Again I agree 🙂
Jane 28/03/22:
Every super empire rises and falls and I think China is looking like it could be the empire of the future that will overtake the US, but maybe their kind of world domination as a whole is coming to an end? The US infiltrated the world with military bases whereas China has infiltrated the world economically.
The anger of believers. P222.
if, according to the Judeo-Greek ideal, the Mercantile order represents the welcome and successful outcome of progress and individuality, it also constitutes the worst enemy for religious believers because in it, human freedom comes before God's command
So when he says Judeo-Greek ideal here what does he refer to?
Laz 05/04/22:
Well I would say it is the mercantile order and consumerism where the individual is king, versus the do as you are told by god and his servants approach where individualism is removed for community.
Jane 28/03/22:
Does he mean the materialistic minded that worship the mercantile order?
Laz 05/04/22:
Yeah 🙂
Jane 28/03/22:
Why does he say the mercantile order means successful progress and individuality?
Laz 05/04/22:
Because the customer is always right, and money means power.
Jane 28/03/22:
That word “God” just seems to be so ambiguous to me. What we perceive as the higher power is Source. I don’t think it is the same definition once you transcend the 600 (Hawkins consciousness scale).
Laz 05/04/22:
Completely agree 🙂
Jane 28/03/22:
It is only an ego that thinks it comes before God’s command. But it all depends on what a person perceives/believes that God’s command to be. Within a population of billions I guess that is the kind of energy that splits into the multiverse as multiple potential possibilities. Human freedom is individuality! Individuality is human freedom! Something religions and their believers do not seem to get? Nor do the elite 🙂
Laz 05/04/22:
I would say that is because they have the control over the masses, and I return to the idea that while we might like to see a mass awakening, there is none sadly 🙁 How many will unthinkingly go for their 2nd Covid vaccine booster?
Jane 28/03/22:
...comes before Gods command and particularly because it endangers the stability of the family on which transmission of faith depends...
I don’t get his obsession or his negative perceptions on the family?
Laz 05/04/22:
It is a long held belief that the control the elite desire cannot be total as long as family units hold more loyalty to each other than to the state. That is where he’s coming from I think.
Jane 28/03/22:
I don’t need to preach crap to my family as a forced faith, it is all about vibrations and just being an example. I would say that it is the transmission that is passed down naturally in action, they get it by osmosis, of things like morals, it is not the religious stuff of faith at all. They go on about religious groups as if they have a monopoly on peoples spiritual nature, there are a huge number of people who do not identify as being of a religion but who are highly spiritual. Far more so than the religious! In fact a great deal of the so called religious fall into the category of the fast asleep blanks!
Laz 05/04/22:
Oh, they’re the worst as they follow orders with God on their side! Religion is a control structure, where as spirituality is not 🙂
Jane 06/04/22:
Spot On!
Jane 28/03/22:
I don’t know about separating church from state but to me there is a separation of church from the higher dimensional psychospiritual realms of human consciousness.
Laz 05/04/22:
Yes, this is by design!
Jane 28/03/22:
I would say the separation of the church realisation on the path comes during the Agnostic phase when we are completely disillusioned with and about religion. If this phase is successful passed through on a progressive path then it is a pure psychospiritual mind we end up in. That very defined separation of religion and spirituality. Go beyond the 600 cons scale. Don’t need a religion or savior anymore. Otherwise maybe that is where people remain Atheists? closed to the higher realms psychospiritually in conscious awareness.
Laz 05/04/22:
I don’t know, I’ve had a spiral journey in and out of each and i may go round some more, who knows! 😀 I mean I have fundamentally broken the laws of Christianity and yet when I spoke with Jesus he was chill about it! I’ll never forget the fundamental guilt approaching his spirit and admitting that I didn’t follow him, and asking if I could go my own way and to modernize his message, and he said yes do it! He wanted siblings, not followers hanging on his every word.
Jane 06/04/22:
Jesus loved sinners…
"I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent"
I don’t think there is a person alive who has not “sinned” because by definition that would mean they have not lived. Even a “wrong” thought is seen as sinning in the bible. But I too remember the fundamental guilt that i felt I think it is a part of the inner work for anyone on the path…salvation. maybe that is the crossover >600. It is almost like we prove we can be trusted to go our own way with his blessing…..For me it was a high five, then I took the baton from him and ran forward with it 🙂
Jane 28/03/22:
Some will proclaim the supremacy of Christian values over the laws of men and even over reason. Some of them will go as far as to consider that the use of force is theologically permitted
Christian values over the laws of men? Again define what those Christian values are? There are some Christian values that ARE reason, what I would term God’s laws because they are not all bullshit but It is the universal laws that are over the laws of men.
The two great evangelising religions, Christianity and Islam will be in the thick of this battle. Each in it's own way will co-op the secular argument and even find justification for conflict and violence among themselves and against the mercantile order
Can you explain to me what does he mean by they will “co-op the secular argument” ?
Laz 05/04/22:
So they will go against the teachings of their religions and have a very ungodly fight! Like they have done for centuries anyway. Love thy neighbour, unless they are of a different religion. In which case Kill the infidel! 😀
Jane 28/03/22:
It is so sad that religions are too fucking blind to see, due to religious bullshit when they are on the same side.
Laz 05/04/22:
This is where the Chimp or Lizard brain of mankind comes in and just fucks up the godly message for it’s own egoic reasons. As a species we really need a visceral physical being having the role of father over us or we tend to go madly selfish. This is why the digital God will be used to control people with physical restrictions and alternatively reward a select few for compliance.
This digital god will equally deal out love and punishment via a mobile phone and while I have nothing to fear in such a regime, I still do not think it is right to subject humanity to such control, which in itself could bring about a hyperconflict, and I feel for those who fall foul of this new god’s wrath and wish for a better way as this feels like a sticking plaster over a broken bone http://www.closertogod.net/thoughts/sciencedetail/GodMachine.htm
Jane 28/03/22:
But will go to war trying to prove their delusions that they are not! Even within the same religion they squabble over who is right, like the Christian Catholics versus Protestants or Muslim Shi’ites versus Sunnis. All devoutly religious people have the same spiritual goal!
Both the bible and the Koran talk about a holy war with wrath. The jihad/holy war that is written in holy scriptures is meant to be a symbolic representation of the psychospiritual war within ourselves. I see Arjuna the warrior as the same character in the Bhagavad – Gita… meant to be symbolic…..
Krishna is one of the most popular Hindu Gods throughout India. Lord Krishna is considered the eighth avatar, or incarnation, of the Hindu God Vishnu. According to legend Krishna was not only divine, but heroic as well. Krishna is believed to have defeated numerous dragons and monsters, and eventually, as predicted, killed his half-uncle, the tyrannical king Kamsa.
In the epic poem the Mahabharata, Krishna plays a major role that serves as the starting point for a change in Hindu practice. In the poem, he serves as the charioteer for Arjuna, who is about to go into battle against many of his relatives.
As Arjuna sits dejected knowing that to be victorious he must slay his half-brothers, Krishna delivers his celebrated oration, the 'Bhagavad-Gita' (The Song of the Celestial One), on duty and life to the troubled hero Arjuna. This speech persuaded Arjuna that although he was torn by loyalty, it was right to fight against his kinsmen since they were unrighteous.
Krishna expounds a philosophy of right action being the ideal path of salvation, as opposed to relying on ritualistic sacrifices and idol worship as a means of salvation. He states that while yoga and devotion might lead to oneness with God, righteous conduct is better since it helps in both the spiritual and material worlds. The two former methods, Krishna notes, were only focused on the spiritual worlds" "He is the most popular champion in Hindu literature, a demigod (son of the storm god Indra), Arjuna represents the best aspects of humanity: Courage, Strength, and Humility. Intelligence and Wisdom
It sounds like the grail path again 🙂
Laz 05/04/22:
Completely, Arjuna is each of us and we all face the same questions and worries that he had along with being tested.
Jane 28/03/22:
I know the high Hindu gods were seen as bisexual in energies so again I guess it could be seen as the equivalent of the Rebis? The goal of human alchemy.
Laz 05/04/22:
Absolutely 🙂 I faithfully copied that in Drew Juna when describing Drew’s mum Kris: “She runs a hand through her short wavy black hair and reveals glowing androgynous features.”
Jane 06/04/22:
Yes, I remember that stood out to me as I was reading it:)
Jane 28/03/22:
It is true generally that…
No one wages war in the name of Buddhism, Confucianism or Hinduism
He says they may make excuses for force to be permitted on behalf of their religions, but it goes entirely against divine law and therefore that truth cannot be hidden from the people. Hence the recognition of the above fact. Although I have seen some examples of what I would class Buddhist and Hindu extremism.
Obey no laws other than God.....
See I am on board with this if only people knew what it means, by definition. obey the universal laws of the Source!
Laz 05/04/22:
I’m sure you are aware how it has been corrupted though. All it means to most is do as you are told by your immediate superior!
Jane 28/03/22:
This is the problem to me that their perception of that God and the laws is written in the bullshit. As we have said the core teachings in all religions is what I would call God’s word, but the religions themselves wrap it up in bullshit. The universal laws are universal anything more added to them is human input. So by forcing people to obey that bullshit part is not of God but of man.
Laz 05/04/22:
You got it 🙂
Jane 28/03/22:
Is it any wonder peoples true selves find it difficult to obey the shit that goes against their very divinity if it does not resonate within them as a divine being of truth?
God does not dictate what people eat, wear, and do nor their rituals and customs. That is what the religious founders and cultural leaders have decided to add on as rules and regulations to follow for political or control purposes. This is what segregated and makes religion itself tribal! Believing they are the special ones chosen by God and better than others who do not follow their specific agenda, dogma or teachings. Now, that is bloody bonkers! 😀
Laz 05/04/22:
Yes it is, but the unthinking majority simply obey!
Jane 28/03/22:
About Christianity he says…
These churches will urge women to return to the home and produce more and more children
I think there is a difference between being urged and being forced.
Far right parties will explicitly urge women to return to the home and raise their children
I get that the motive behind this would no doubt be a skewed one by the patriarchal far right. but in a fair society with reason and choice I would actually see that for many as a positive! For the mothers and the kids. I get why they did it but I still think the radical feminists shot themselves in the bloody foot.
Laz 05/04/22:
I would say it is perhaps more accurate to say they were lead into a cage of their own making!
Jane 28/03/22:
They would probably want to shoot me for saying so. Lmao. (But we cannot be cancelled 😀 ) Respect is all it takes to settle the battle between the sexes.
Laz 05/04/22:
I would say that Rebis is the way to settle the battle. Either polar opposite of extreme male or female is going to fight with the other.
Jane 28/03/22:
There are different classes of people with a range of conscious awarenesses. Freedom means different things to different people, it does not mean having the right to do what the hell one wants to do and sod everyone else as some low level egoic minds believe.
Laz 05/04/22:
I mean it does mean that, but it is expected that what you want to do is within reason and that you are not a monster. This rule has the obvious side effect of allowing bad people to commit atrocities and for good ones to never get anywhere in life. It’s fundamentally unbalanced as a philosophical statement.
Jane 28/03/22:
But the freedom to have ones own mind as in individualism and live within the universal laws. The light of truth shall set you free. I accept and allow that every persons perception is valid but that doesn’t necessarily make it true. There are nearly 8 billion minds/psyches/perceptions of differing levels of awareness. Most peoples opinion is just that especially with the blanks opinions coming from limited knowledge and understanding and relative to capabilities of intellect and reasoning.
"Some theologians will see in this the advent of the battle signaling, in the Book, the end of days - an end that must lead to the arrival of the Messiah (Christians) Muslims (hidden Imam) Hindus (Kaiki) ..in all cases, they say it will end with the victory of good over evil"
I would say lead to the arrival of a spiritual consciousness, regardless of religion, our own inner saviour. To me there is no second coming because there was no first and it is not one individual.
Laz 05/04/22:
As with my spiral statement above I see this metaphorically in that I was brought up as a Christian child, and I gave it all up to become an atheist, but later returned and realised the unseen value and perhaps became the second coming myself, metaphorically I saved myself. This is why I feel so strongly about individualism and a connection to the source, and also why I hate organised religion that puts the individual at the back and someone like the pope as the only one in the religion who may communicate directly with God.
Jane 28/03/22:
The coming of the “saviour” is the coming into being of the energy of “Christ consciousness” on a collective scale. The “Christ” within us all.
Laz 05/04/22:
I see you agree 🙂
Jane 28/03/22:
Already at work, new forces will seize power in order to create a just, Pacific, united and brotherly world
This is the first optimistic thing he has said. Lol. I actually believe that those forces are already working, even if it is unseen, in the metaphysical realm 🙂
Laz 05/04/22:
There is a perspective issue here though, and there is this huge apocalypse to overcome where billions die first in hyperconflict.
Jane 28/03/22:
A planetary democracy will be enthroned, limiting the market powers. It will try to win other, much more urgent wars: against the madness of men, against climatic upheavals, against mortal disease
Maybe as a change of priority?- these are the wars that man can collectively win together, the ones that are worth fighting for 🙂
We shall witness the birth of these denuclearised, pacifist and passive postnational post national states, already the dream of the German philosopher Jurgen Habermas, among many others
So I googled him…
Jürgen Habermas was born in Düsseldorf, Germany, in 1929. His father, a director at the local seminary, was involved in the Nazi regime, and encouraged his son to join the Hitler Youth. Habermas was sent to the western front in the last months of WWII, when he was only 15 years old. After the Nuremberg trials, where the secrets of the concentration camps were revealed, Habermas came to realize the true nature of Nazi regime, something he had been fighting for. He was also horrified at how easily former Nazis, who had perpetrated such atrocities, were able to resume life in Germany society, acting as if nothing had happened. This experience changed his life, and is reflected in his philosophical works on political systems.
That must have been quite the moment of realisation…
🙂
Laz 05/04/22:
Yeah, I think we’ve just seen it with all the Covid mask and lockdown zealots!
Jane 06/04/22:
Yes, the consequences are all coming out in the wash, my hope is that lessons will be learned 🙂
Laz 05/04/22:
I always liked Dusseldorf, not as pretty as Koln, but had great pizzas freshly cooked in front of you in the old town 🙂
Jane 28/03/22:
He was born with a cleft palate and had corrective surgery twice during childhood. Habermas argues that his speech disability made him think differently about the importance of deep dependence and of communication
I always find it interesting in others because i can relate to the fact that communication difficulties often lead to a different pathway of thinking. I noticed it in the phisiological changes in brain neuron firing, I guess it has to become more creative? :),
Habermas argues that the public sphere requires "specific means for transmitting information and influencing those who receive it". Habermas' argument shows that the media are of particular importance for constituting and maintaining a public sphere
This is sourcery at its most powerful. It can be black or white, sometimes grey. Even the media plays its role in propoganda, something the Nazi's were expert at when such information was in limited form.
Laz 05/04/22:
They were amateurs compared to our BBC!
Jane 28/03/22:
On religion….
Jürgen Habermas's attempt to reopen political liberalism to religion. In trying to “take religion seriously,” Habermas goes further than John Rawls and other liberal theorists by affirming that religious traditions articulate truths on which democratic societies continue to depend for their civic and moral health. “Post-secular” societies, in his view, should learn from religion by translating its “moral intuitions” into universal secular language. Although Habermas in this way appears friendlier to religion than Rawls, unlike Rawls he also calls for the “modernization of religious consciousness.” This theological transformation not only reveals the foundationalist presuppositions of liberalism, but also points to a highly attenuated conception of learning from religion. Taking religion seriously will require us to be open to its insights not only when they agree with, but especially when they challenge, our secular presuppositions. This dimension of religion is at risk of getting “lost in translation” in the Habermasian paradigm"
"Habermas stated that he wrote as a "methodological atheist," which means that when doing philosophy or social science, he presumed nothing about particular religious beliefs
Yes, so that truth needs to be a non religious universal language of definition of the universal laws, so it does not/ will not get lost in translation 🙂
Laz 05/04/22:
Agreed 🙂
Jane 28/03/22:
I have looked at todays authors and the on line lightworkers and the awakened are following and teaching those universal laws….without the religious emphasis, to the spiritual seekers 🙂
So I watched this short video to get a sense of his vibrations 🙂 https://youtu.be/YyVajaBRfoI
"Habermas points to the Christian doctrine of the creation of the human person in the image of God as an illustration of how an effective translation may work: secular reason can preserve the moral intuitions of Christian egalitarianism by separating them from their theological foundations"
This to me sounds like the Rebis, human person in the image of god. As you said…” Like the divine trying to find itself in each of us :)” 🙂
I had a funny thought, if being in the world but not of it could be seen as being equal to “individualism” And loving thy neighbour as thyself is “collective individualism”, then what is it when you don’t live in the world nor of the world anymore? …”invisiblism”? Lol. Is that even a word? ?… Nope, so I must have just made it up 😀
Laz 05/04/22:
That would be a nice trick to perform 🙂
Jane 28/03/22:
I notice on the front cover this work was described as “brilliant and provocative” by Henry Kissinger….
"Kissinger remains a controversial and polarizing figure in U.S. politics, both condemned as an alleged war criminal by many journalists, political activists, and human rights lawyers, and venerated as a highly effective U.S. Secretary of State by many prominent international relations scholars"
So maybe it does pander to a specific elitist mindset?
Laz 05/04/22:
Finally I have finished Chapter 5 🙂
Twas all a bit meh for me, some insights into the world we are now living in I suppose, I liked the bit about Russia being encircled and attacking first, and about the lawlessness of such times as both of these predictions seem to be accurate, but there was so much other guff in there that I can’t really call him Nostradamus!
Oh, I thought we had agreed on that already 🙂
"Henry Kissinger How I'm missing yer
You're the Doctor of my dreams
With your crinkly hair and your glassy stare
And your machiavellian schemes
All right so people say that you don't care
But you've got nicer legs than Hitler
And bigger tits than Cher
Henry Kissinger
How I'm missing yer
And wishing you were here"
On to Chapter 6!
Jane 06/04/22:
Yes 🙂