Jane 29/10/21:
It has been a long time since I read Gopi Krishna’s work so I am really enjoying reading it afresh.
It is interesting because reading it now I can clearly see correlations between yours, Gopi’s and my own path experiences and boy is this stuff relatable π
ONE morning during the Christmas of 1937 ...
That is interesting, a non Christian culture but that Christmas period thing!
Laz 29/10/21:
The veil is thinner then π
Jane 29/10/21:
I again felt the current moving upward. I did not allow my attention to waver, and again with a rush and a roaring noise in my ears the stream of effulgent light entered my brain, filling me with power and vitality, and I felt myself expanding in all directions, spreading beyond the boundaries of flesh, entirely absorbed in the contemplation of a brilliant conscious glow, one with it and yet not entirely merged in it
So an example of a expanded halo kundali transcendence strike! Lol.
Laz 29/10/21:
Not sure about the halo part. reminds me of the luminous egg from Castaneda
Jane 30/10/21:
Yes I agree with you that his description does sound like the luminous egg, I think I was just remembering and comparing his experience with your “halo” one. π
Laz 30/10/21:
Yes, I’ve felt the halo on a number of occasions, maybe this experience is an incomplete one and really I should feel the whole egg!
Jane 29/10/21:
I was no longer myself, or to be more accurate, no longer as I knew myself to be, a small point of awareness confined in a body, but instead was a vast circle of consciousness in which the body was but a point, bathed in light and in a state of exaltation and happiness impossible to describe. After some time, the duration of which I could not judge, the circle began to narrow down; I felt myself contracting, becoming smaller and smaller, until I again became dimly conscious of the outline of my body, then more clearly; and as I slipped back to my old condition, I became suddenly aware of the noises in the street, felt again my arms and legs and head, and once more became my narrow self in touch with body and surroundings
Firstly this is how I would describe the first experience of the microcosmic/macrocosmic consciousness. Being the one attention mind to the all, like 2 separate points, I guess you could relate it to going from first attention and zooming straight into third for a period? Cosmic level.
The other thing that struck me is where he talks about the come down and of becoming suddenly aware of noise and environmental surroundings.
What had happened to me? Was I the victim of a hallucination? Or had I by some strange vagary of fate succeeded in experiencing the Transcendental? Had I really succeeded where millions of others had failed?
Did you ever think stuff like that? I was unaware of what it was or even of others attempting it. But I did have an intuitive feeling it was something rare.
Laz 29/10/21:
I remember thinking, this is it, this is Moksha π
Jane 30/10/21:
Lol. I had to google the word. Another case of unfamiliar terminology, known experience π Yes I told you when I made that realisation I sobbed in relief, it was a very profound stage of psychological mind for me. Whatever level that takes you to on the scale of consciousness, I was like thank fuck I made it! Lmao. It may have been at the <600> crossover? I am not sure if it was the Christian salvation level, or buddha enlightenment level?
Poly-Solipsism I think - Reality is not only malleable, it is fundamentally interactive. It conforms to our expectations and our anxieties. We cannot say one part of Reality is malleable and another part is not. We cannot exclude any part of Reality from being manipulate by our apprehensions. Reality is Information processed by an Observer. You are the Observer for your own Reality.1: Every mind is a universe unto itself. All we can know of Reality is what we perceive. All knowledge of our Universe is therefore perceived knowledge. All Truths are perceived Truths.
So what happens when we each perceive a different truth? By “truth” I do not mean just philosophical truth; that of Faith and Religion, but also the every day truth of existence and the everyday truth of what we call Reality. When we look out at the world we assume the world we see is true; it is really there, and everyone else is perceiving the very same world we do. We cannot know that for a certainty. We cannot even be certain everyone else actually sees the same world we do. And if they do see the same world, are they perceiving it exactly as we are perceiving it?
Laz 30/10/21:
Certainly there are hidden truths, or internal truths, that can only be known by the individual. Cross examination by a skilled questioner is probably the only way for someone else to test those. For example, I say I had a Kundalini awakening. How can I prove that I am not making it up? Interview techniques can help establish consistency and depth of experience had. Although some people are bad at describing things, and poor communicators so that doesn’t mean they are making it up. I think memory as well is key so that if a person is asked to remember the experience days/weeks/months later, the words they use will show if they are telling of a real experience or just making stuff up. Escape phrases like “it was to amazing to put into words” or “I do not recall” are red flags, as is anger being shown to shut down the questions. I had all of these type of responses happen during my time as an auditor π
Jane 30/10/21:
We already know the answer to that question is no. There is little or no harmony in our perceptions of Reality or truth. In spite of all this disharmony we pretty well manage to get along with most others, but every so often we are confronted with someone so alien to us in some way, we feel they must certainly be from another Universe!
It is an entirely accurate observation. Everyone of us really does exist in a different universe. One all our own, and self created by our perceptions of truth and Reality. I agree with that philosophy π
Jane 29/10/21:
My thoughts were in a daze. I could hardly believe that I had a visionof divinity. There had been an expansion of my own self, my own consciousness, and the transformation had been brought about by the vital current that had started from below the spine and found access to my brain through the backbone.I recalled that I had read long ago in books on Yoga of a certain vital mechanism called Kundalini, connectedwith the lower end of the spine, which becomes active by means of certain exercises, and when once roused carries the limited human consciousness to transcendental heights, endowing the individual with incredible psychic and mental powers. Had I been lucky enough to find the key to this wonderful mechanism, which was wrapped up in the legendary mist of ages, about which people talked and whispered without having once seen it in action in themselves or in others?
Gopi’s truth resonates so deeply and it is so easy to relate to him isn’t it?
Laz 29/10/21:
Yes, and is a hallmark of a genuine experience in my opinion. Lots of fakers talk about complexity that cannot be described and use the language of Yoga to hide behind. Gopi is able to speak plainly and clearly and cut through all of that, marking him out as someone we can relate to as we recognise the experience.
Jane 30/10/21:
Yes, it is like channelled stuff and myth writers, they themselves have no direct actual factual experiences and that by definition means resorting to the limitations of other peoples descriptions and perceptions. It takes the experience to know the experience.
Jane 29/10/21:
Little did I realize that from that day onwards I was never to be my old normal self again, that I had unwittingly and without preparation or even adequate knowledge of it roused to activity the most wonderful and stern power in man, that I had stepped unknowingly upon the key to the most guarded secret of the ancients, and that thenceforth for a long time I had to live suspended by a thread, swinging between life on the one hand and death on the other, between sanity and insanity, between light and darkness, between heaven and earth
I would say we’ve both been there on our paths π
Laz 29/10/21:
Yep, Rebis is the model π
Jane 29/10/21:
Instead of feeling exceedingly happy at my luck and blessing my stars, why had despondency overtaken me? I felt as if I were in imminent danger of something beyond my understanding and power, something intangible and mysterious, which I could neither grasp nor analyse. A heavy cloud of depression and gloom seemed to hang round me, rising from my own internal depths without relation to external circumstances, I did not feel I was the same man I had been but a few days before, and a condition of horror, on account of the inexplicable change, began to settle on me, from which, tryas I might, I could not make myself free by any effort of my will
Does this resonate with you? I did not have to endure that part. I think due to my circumstances.
Laz 29/10/21:
For me it was all about fear of “becoming”. Once that had completed I was fine with it.
Jane 30/10/21:
Can you expand on what you mean here by the term “becoming”?
Laz 30/10/21:
So becoming evil, or at least becoming numb to it such that I do not offer any resistance to evil.
Laz 29/10/21:
Although my repeat experiences all had the pattern of fear and anxiety before a Kundalini event, and then release afterwards. Maybe with Gopi, his heartbeat/timeline of experiences was faster than my own, I can’t remember the time period of his awakening now.
Jane 30/10/21:
I absolutely love the phrase but i don’t know what you mean by ‘heartbeat of experiences’?
Laz 30/10/21:
So the time interval between each Kundalini event for him. For me it was very slow like one every 8 months.
Jane 30/10/21:
Can you clarify if this is stated in the past tense ? I.e. had or have?
Laz 30/10/21:
Yes, past tense
Jane 30/10/21:
Are you saying what your mind was doing processing things the other day is an example of an ongoing pattern of a fear, anxiety, kundalini, release, that you experience due to stress? If so how often does that happen?
Laz 30/10/21:
No not recently. What happened recently is like a one out of ten score compared to the major Kundalini movements.
Jane 30/10/21:
Do you manage these things ok ?
Laz 30/10/21:
Yes, as usual my approach is to write it down and surrender to it.
Jane 29/10/21:
My mind was in a ferment. I looked at the sun. Could it be that in my condition of extreme concentration I had mistaken it for the effulgent halo that had surrounded me in the superconscious state? I closed my eyes again, allowing the rays of the sun to play upon my face. No, the glow that I could perceive across my closed eyelids was quite different. It was external and had not that splendour. The light I had experienced was internal, an integral part of enlarged consciousness, a part of my self. I had now no doubts that the experience was real and that the sun had nothing to do with the internal lustre that I saw
I think that this is a good description of that sudden strange realisation when you know the light/sun shining inside your head as a physical phenomena is not the same thing as the sun you see in the sky. But yet that being it’s only known possible analogy.
From kundalini pdf. Inner lights.
A variety of lights may appear internally. Bucke, a psychiatrist and author of Cosmic Consciousness, considers this the most important criterion for calling an experience cosmic. He finds a gradation of these phenomena, from subjective symptoms to objective manifestations, similar to that which we observed for heat. The most subtle were those in which this illumination was just a new way of grasping something, as in the "ah ha" experience. Others "saw" light internally
I did not get literal internal lighting up immediately following my own kundalini strike. It came some time later.
Laz 29/10/21:
As you know, I’ve never seen any lights as such, and consider myself blind to them.
Jane 29/10/21:
So I would say cosmic consciousness is the equivalent of the assemblage point being at the third attention as described in Don Juan’s teachings?
Laz 29/10/21:
As I usually say, they are different philosophies π
Jane 29/10/21:
Because of a desire to deal equal justice in all cases, I was frequently brought in conflict with hidden influences surreptitiously at work behind the apparently spotless façade of Government offices, which every now and then created insoluble problems and odious situations for me. I had a strange partiality for the underdog, and this trait in my character worked equally against my own interests
I would say here, he shared your work life situation of developing or testing this character trait and hence battle, on your path π
Laz 29/10/21:
There are similarities for sure.
Jane 29/10/21:
So reading this about his father has got me thinking because it says Gopi’s father “chose” to do his path…
My father, an ardent admirer of this ancient ideal, which provides for many a refreshing contrast to the 'dead-to-heaven and wed-to-earth' old age of today, chose for himself a recluse's life, about twelve years after marriage, his gradually formed decision hastened by the tragic death of his first-born son at the age of five. Retiring voluntarily from a lucrative Government post, before he was even fifty, he gave up all the pleasures and cares of life and shut himself in seclusion with his books, leaving the entire responsibility of managing the household on the inexperienced shoulders of his young wife
I would say I had different circumstances but still a similar kind of path to Gopi’s father. I sometimes wonder did I leave too early? I was 44. But I cannot say I “chose” it, my matrix life through restrictions just became the right circumstances for it to happen in the west. Aka, a kind of forced life of recluse/retreat. Or as close as you could probably get? I knew when after 3 years I had cleared my own karma. I believed in reincarnation until that point in time. But do we “chose” it? Or does it chose us?
Laz 29/10/21:
I’ve always been told it’s the latter. JJ Semple had this phrase he’d always use “Kundalini does you!”
Jane 30/10/21:
Yes, I agree and resistance is futile! π
Jane 29/10/21:
According to popular belief, Krishna imparted the lofty teaching of Bhagavad Gita to the warrior, Arjuna, on the battlefield before the commencement of action in the epic war, Mahabharata. Wondering at the prodigious, supernatural feats of valour and strength recounted in the narrative with a wealth of detail, which carried my childish imagination into fantastic realms, I unquestioningly accepted every impossible and unbelievable incident with which the story abounds as truth, filled with a desire to grow into a superman of identical powers myself
Yeah, as with all teachings we aspire to live like, embody the myth, become the fantasy hero. Children love to worship their heroes, whoever or whatever that may be.
Laz 29/10/21:
My eldest has always had this thing for Boadicea. I’m a little concerned for her future but like the role model in terms of a strong woman.
Jane 29/10/21:
” teaching the Gita to the warrior” Again, the abstract warrior path teachings I am sure similar to Don Juan’s.
Laz 29/10/21:
Yes, hence my Drew Juna story π
Jane 29/10/21:
With rapt attention I listened to the superhuman exploits of Krishna, which my maternal uncle read aloud every evening until almost midnight from his favourite translation of Bhagavad Purana, a famous book of Hindu mythology, containing the story of the incarnations of the god Vishnu in human form. According to popular belief, Krishna imparted the lofty teaching of Bhagavad Gita to the warrior, Arjuna, on the battlefield before the commencement of action in the epic war, Mahabharata. Wondering at the prodigious, supernatural feats of valour and strength recounted inthe narrative with a wealth of detail, which carried my childish imagination into fantastic realms, I unquestioningly accepted every impossible and unbelievable incident with which the story abounds as truth, filled with a desire to grow into a superman of identical powers myself
This is exactly what the heroes journey is but it is all mind tests, initiations and battles. The path is one of inner mind psycho spiritual character formation. I know you was oblivious but I can honestly say that from my experience on my path as I remember, you did play the “hero” role, to me π lol.
Laz 29/10/21:
I never considered myself a hero, I mean I didn’t save anyone from anything. I can relate to “the journey” and the return to tell the story, but I think mine was more of a growing up, a maturity beyond basic human. I think any one is capable of that, but few go there.
Jane 30/10/21:
Like I already said…. oblivious! π
Jane 29/10/21:
my study was confined to school classics, but I soon had the chance to read a slightly abridged translation in Urdu of the Arabian Nights at the age of about twelve, which I came upon accidentally in the house of my aunt.
The book for the first time created in me a burning thirst for fairy tales, stories of adventure and travel, and other romantic literature which continued un-diminished for several years. At the age of fourteen, starting with easy stories, I turned from Urdu to English, devouring hungrily every story book and romance that came into my hands
It is so interesting to me that all of the fairy story, fantasy adventure and/or mythology seems to be universal and how the abstract realm of mind can be seen as a kind of magic and how it plays it’s part, doesn’t it? It is a fascinating concept when you consider the psychological biology of belief, magic being the influence on a mind that can conjure up a human minds own beliefs…from things like … Lol. for some reason, I just love that one π Maybe it appeals to the inner child of a mystical unicorn merge with a Jedi knight light saber? π
Laz 29/10/21:
I can’t even imagine that π
Jane 29/10/21:
By the time I had completed my first year at college, the impact of the books, especially elementary treatises on astronomy and natural science to which I had access in the college library, as well as my ideas, formed or confirmed by continued study, had become powerful enough to start me on a path contrary to the one I had followed in childhood, and it did not take me long to emerge a full-fledged agnostic, full of doubts and questions about the extravagant notions and irrational beliefs of my own religion, to which I had lent complete credence only a few years before
In order to succeed it was necessary to have at least some knowledge of the methods to bring one's rebellious self into subjugation. Accordingly, I read a few books of the usual kind on the development of personality and mind control
From mind control it was but a step to Yoga and occultism
This was definitely my way on the self mind control. I think this may indicate Gopi’s mind doing that switch to a balancing act, like for me I was all science/left brained sceptic and needed the imaginative abstract, spiritual/right side to bring about an equal balance. So it was the opposite for me, Gopi seems to have been all right brained in his early learning and reading and then the left side kicked in. Maybe this is in order for the right or left dominant mind, alike, to reach a level playing field point of agnosticism. Eventually leading to Gnosticism? man of knowledge.
Laz 29/10/21:
I think mine went Christianity, Paranormal, Occult, Atheism, World Philosophy, World religion, then back to Christianity, now to Polyslipsism.
It’s strange for me now to consider that science and religion are separate, the scientific method allowed me to find the source, and Scientists now act like the clergy of old. BELIEVE IN THE HOLY VACCINE!
Agnosticism is not really a position, rather it is a refusal to take a position, at least that’s how I see it π The Gnostics are closer to my own beliefs.
Jane 30/10/21:
I understand your point on this but if I can elaborate this was the closest definition I could come up with. Trying to give an example of being between two points/positions on beliefs in a rapidly changing mind process. What I meant by using the term agnostic was more a temporary state or position. taking all belief back to point zero. Accepting a brief period of non knowing, instead of thinking you know anything it all, before entering the true learning period into something like gnostisism, being it’s opposite. Agnostic: One who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the non existence of God or a god.
A person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something. It was a stage/phase. Mine was coming from an atheist mindset. Kind of like agnostic was a step/one move on the board away from atheism? Towards the centre. Gopi’s experience seems to come from the opposite side, one step or move away from blind religious belief…towards the centre.
Jane 30/10/21:
I can see that, yes. And to make this a temporary position is also agreeable to me π
Jane 29/10/21:
Did you experience this shift in interests ?
Laz 29/10/21:
I could not accept the existence of source without the scientific method. I’m still plagued by the appearance of Jesus, Satan, and God in my experience. As I have said before there are these entities claiming to be these characters and I’ve spoken with them. I don’t have a rational answer for who they are, but I know they are not as the bible claims. Aliens maybe?
Jane 30/10/21:
Can you expand on this. I am curious and need more depth of information π
Laz 30/10/21:
Not really, I’m sorry. I’ve had these “communications” that come from something else consciousness wise, and have documented them, but I need more experience and time to understand them. Being the skeptic that I am, I can’t accept that they are the biblical spirits. I want to know more, but do not know how to proceed. I’m back in the waiting room until something happens again π
Jane 30/10/21:
Are you saying these experiences are still going on?
Laz 30/10/21:
No, not for a while now.
Jane 30/10/21:
When you say “plagued by the appearance in your experience” do you mean as in seeing visual matrix images of these things or plagued as in within the experience of mind thoughts? can you give me an example ?
Laz 30/10/21:
Plagued with the experience being an unexplained part of my journey. I cannot mentally leave it alone and think about it perhaps a little too much, along with its recent absence.
Jane 30/10/21:
Of each if possible. Jesus, Satan and god. Are they all negative?
Laz 30/10/21:
Oh no, not at all.
Jane 30/10/21:
And can you define the term ‘aliens’ in this context that you use the word. I find language can be so restricting in communications.
Laz 30/10/21:
Extra terrestrial consciousnesses π
Jane 03/11/21:
So can you define for me what “extra terrestrial consciousness” is? Means to you. Where do you think it comes from? Like where is it’s origin?
Laz 03/11/21:
So we as humans are a fragment of the source consciousness in us, and I feel that there must be other alien life out there which also has a fragment of the universal consciousness in them, and this is our link to them (Kundalini being the communications network). The holographic universe idea means that we may be standing next to each other outside of the universe, but we’ve projected into different bodies in different worlds and each have very different experiences of being alive, but there is still that kinship between us.
Jane 29/10/21:
Or would you say you was always more balanced between the two, spiritual and scientific ?
Laz 29/10/21:
I was always on the science side and a born skeptic, as I believe it is not intrinsically in conflict with spirituality. Only those who wish to make a division would speak of division here, and they are the types who worship, believe, and pray to science as a religion itself which is beyond questioning. It is also these idiotic types who will announce “follow the science” and “the science is settled” which go against the scientific method.
Jane 29/10/21:
Even the accounts of the carefully observed and to all appearances supernatural manifestations and extraordinary phenomena exhibited by mediums and psychics all over Europe, although most startling and absorbing, often left me unconvinced, unable to reconcile the otherwise ordered harmony of nature with the erratic displays sometimes noticed at mediumistic seances. I could not bring myself to believe that law-abiding nature, at the peak of her glory in the beauty and perfection of the marvellous human organism, could be so inconsistent in the case of a few specially constituted men and women, themselves as ignorant about the nature of the power manifesting itself through them as the spectators of their extraordinary feats, as to take a sudden plunge from perfect order in the material universe to freakish sport in the spiritual realm
I would say he was not impressed with his witnessing the siddhis being used…lol.
Laz 29/10/21:
That is the teaching, and the catch for people who revel in their power!
Jane 29/10/21:
My interest in the study and practice of Yoga was not the outcome of any deep desire to possess psychic gifts. The tricks and deception sometimes practised by men of this class, the exhortations against the exhibition and abuse of spiritual powers contained in the scriptures, and above all the utter futility of an effort useless as a means to secure lasting benefits either for one's own self or for other men were all, to my mind, sufficient reasons to rise above the temptation for acquiring the powers to flout the laws of Matter without possessing at the same time the necessary strength of will to obey the laws of the spirit. The emphasis laid in some of the books on Yoga, both of the East and the West, on the development of psychic powers merely for the sake of gaining success in worldly enterprise invariably made me wonder at the incongruity in human nature, which, even in the case of a system designed to develop the spiritual side of man, focusses the attention more on the acquisition of visible, wonder-exciting properties of the body or mind than on the invisible but tranquil possessions of the soul
Or abused π
I was determined to live a family life, simple and clean, devoid of luxury, free from the fever of social rivalry and display, permitting me to fulfil my obligations and to live peacefully on the fruit of my labour, restraining my desires and reducing my needs, in order to have ample time and the essentially required serenity of mind to pursue calmly the path I had chosen for myself
I could never reconcile myself to a life which, in any way, directly or indirectly, cast a reflection on my manhood, on my ability to make use of my limbs and my talents to maintain myself and those dependent on me, reducing me practically to the deplorable state of a paralytic, forced to make his basic needs the concern of other people
Is he referring to the veg state of stone buddhas here?
Laz 29/10/21:
Yes I think so, that idea we all have of the perfect Guru act!
Jane 29/10/21:
Or maybe he is referring specifically to his father? I note his anxiety about his manhood.
I longed to attain the condition of consciousness, said to be the ultimate goal of Yoga, which carries the embodied spirit to regions of unspeakable glory and bliss, beyond the sphere of opposites, free from the desire for life and fear of death. This extraordinary state of consciousness, internally aware of its own surpassing nature, was the supreme prize for which the true aspirants of Yoga had to strive
So is this the same as nonduality? “beyond the spheres of opposites” ?
Laz 29/10/21:
Umm, you are asking me?!? I still don’t understand non-duality, and was reminded of it earlier with that talk of agnosticism! to me they appear to be a similar mindset.
Jane 29/10/21:
I thirsted for rationality in religion, for the worship of truth, whatever and wherever that might be. There was no spectacle more painful for me than the sight of a conscientious and intelligent man defending an absurdity which even a child could see through, simply because it formed an article of his faith to which he must hold at any cost, even if that cost included the sacrifice of reason and truth. On the other side, the irrationality of those who attempted to squeeze the universe within the narrow compass of reason was no less deplorable. They were ignorant about the nature of their own consciousness. The unknown entity that inhabits human bodies is still enveloped in mystery, and the rational faculty, one of its inseparable possessions, is no less an enigma than the owner itself. As such, the attempt to explain the cosmos purely in terms of human experience, as interpreted by reason, is as irrational an endeavour to solve the riddle of the universe as it would be to judge the appearance of an object with the aid of a mirror which, for all we know, might be blurring, multiplying, or distorting the image in a manner that misrepresents the original"
Well, l cannot help but laugh at this because this sounds just like Gopi describing the idiocracy
Laz 29/10/21:
Yeah, I know what you mean π Reminds me of that idea of the human mind not being capable of working out how it works because it is itself the same organ.
Jane 30/10/21:
Oh yeah, perfect example was what I genuinely empathically felt for that guy in the video you showed in his commitment in defending the undefendable about the Covid. Mortifyingly so, on public display! Classic case of the real Idiocracy exposed!
Jane 29/10/21:
It was towards this surpassing state of pure cognition, free from the limitations of time and space, about which the ancient ages of India had sung in rapturous terms, treating it as the highest objective of human life and endeavour, that I desired with all my heart to soar"
Reminds me of that need within, to reach the unreachable star. π
Jane 03/11/21:
I know that it is a strange occurrence when we are meant to be socially interactive creatures by nature.
Laz 03/11/21:
Do you know, I think that is a lie that was told to us! There have been plenty of recluses in our history and not to long ago there was only the family unit and nothing much else.
Jane 04/11/21:
I think you are right, I think it is the herd/hive stress inducing interactive mentality that became dominant and came to be seen as the “normal”.
Jane 03/11/21:
But due to detachment I think you can still feel alone whilst in other peoples company. For me it is what I would describe and term the “space” that has been created?
Laz 03/11/21:
Sometimes it’s like sitting with the enemy, and very uncomfortable.
Jane 03/11/21:
As you pointed out I think our ‘heartbeat of experiences’ ( I love that term :)) are all different. but in authenticity they could not possibly be the same for any two individuals π If presented in such a way, to us that would be a red flag obvious case of plagiarism aka, fake. I have already noticed how my time frame of experience is also very different to Gopi’s. Also my experience, like yours was not forced through our own practice whereas Gopi has said his was, albeit inadvertently. That seems to have made a very big difference, up to now in reading his experience.
To be honest, now I don’t remember where Gopi’s story/teachings ended? But at least in Gopi’s case he was a real person and not a myth π
On the third day of the awakening I did not feel myself in a mood for meditation and passed the time in bed, not a little uneasy about the abnormal state of my mind and the exhausted condition of my body. The next day when I sat for meditation, after a practically sleepless night, I found to my consternation that I completely lacked the power to concentrate my attention on any point for even a brief interval and that a thin stream of the radiant essence, which had impinged on my brain with such vivifying and elevating effect on the first two occasions, was now pouring into it automatically with a sinister light that instead of uplifting had a most depressing influence on me
I wonder if it was the act of meditation at this point was detrimental to Gopi?
Laz 03/11/21:
It may have been π
Jane 03/11/21:
As I say I did not experience the lighting up sessions in the head thing during my K strike, but later on. It was just felt as heat sensation at that time. The light experience for me has always been an uplifting one that i open up to and enjoy pouring in π Download time π
I lost all feeling of love for my wife and children. I had loved them fondly from the depths of my being. The fountain of love in me seemed to have dried up completely. It appeared as if a scorching blast had raced through every pore in my body, wiping out every trace of affection
They appeared to me no better than strangers
This is exactly how I felt during my 40 day experience especially noticeable towards my husband. I could barely look at him! Did not want him anywhere near me, it was quite disturbing. But as I have said it lasted for the 40 days and then changed again. I still had a detachment from those I loved but my relationships were strangely more authentic as the ego attachments that were not healthy ones were gone. They had been conditional. My love had changed to unconditional.
Laz 03/11/21:
That’s good π I only have unconditional love for everyone now. I think that get’s on Ali’s nerves when she wants me to side with her on hating someone!
Jane 04/11/21:
Oh I know, my husband is still the prejudiced bigot (I used to be) and just hates it when I come out with my unbiased rationality. Regardless who it may concern and I never take sides in any disputes he may have with people. I find myself giving their perspective, to add to his, sometimes his mind cannot cope. Lol. As you have said egos just don’t comprehend someone who doesn’t have one. Unfathomable to them π
Jane 03/11/21:
The recollection of my departed mother, whom I always remembered with deep affection, brought with it no wave of the deep emotion which I had invariably felt at the thought of her. I viewed this unnatural disappearance of a deep-rooted feeling with despondency, finding myself a different man altogether and my un-happiness increased at seeing myself robbed of that which gives life its greatest charm
This reminds me of the phase I went through where I played every CD in my collection, evoking memories and emotions. Songs would stir me up to the point of tears, then the next time I listened there was absolutely no emotion felt, like I had exorcised it from my mind. I felt like I was processing, purging and then transcending emotions?
Laz 03/11/21:
Yes, I have done the same π
Jane 03/11/21:
Again a detachment which I found later to be beneficial.
Laz 03/11/21:
Yes, me too. After all grief is pretty selfish of us, we aren’t crying for the person, but for our loss of them.
I tossed restlessly from side to side without being able for hours to bring my agitated mind to the degree of composure needed to bring sleep. After extinguishing the lights, instead of seeing myself in darkness wafted gradually to a delicious state of rest preparatory to sleep, I found myself staring fearfully into a vast internal glow, disquieting and threatening at times
Whenever I closed my eyes I found myself looking into a weird circle of light, in which luminous currents swirled and eddied, moving rapidly from side to side. The spectacle was fascinating but awful, invested with a supernatural awe which sometimes chilled the very marrow in my bones
This is always how it happens for me as I am settling down to sleep, but again I do not see any problem with it.
Laz 03/11/21:
never had it myself – spiritually blind π
Jane 03/11/21:
Nowerdays I just see a whole head bright light with no analysis or thoughts about it but I would say that I was well beyond this stage of psycho spiritual progress than Gopi was here, when I was activated.
Laz 03/11/21:
Yes, I found myself reading his story and realising that I had transcended it. I think I said before that this did not go down well with those website owners, as they revered Gopi as the highest of the high!
Jane 04/11/21:
Yes, that was my red flag, I had nothing against Gopi, I could relate to him it was just their obsessive worship of him as the highest. I saw it as a limitation. When one guy told me we should never question Gopi’s wisdom I told him that would not be Gopi’s stance at all regarding an evolutionary process.
If I remember correctly he was called J and told us we all had big egos. Lmao. Oh, do you remember you asked him to explain what he meant when he said he could remember when he had his kundalini awakening whilst still in the womb! I don’t think he could, then he got all shitty about it and I found it sooo funny π
Laz 04/11/21:
Gosh, I’d forgotten about that!
Jane 03/11/21:
I would say that I had done all of the necessary mental and psychological work ahead of the timing with mine being a natural arousal and awakening of kundalini and not forced. Maybe the light consciousness experience for Gopi could have been hitting mental/mind blockages that it was coming across as it was working through his headspace by the sounds of the discomfort he describes that it was causing? Maybe in the same way negative physical kundalini energy experiences can indicate a blockage in the meatbag body. Like spontaneous body movements, jerks, pain, etc.?
Laz 03/11/21:
Yep, been there!
Jane 03/11/21:
From the vague ideas I had gathered from these works or picked up in the course of discussions or talks about Yoga, it was only natural for me to infer that the abnormal condition I had brought upon myself was the direct outcome of my meditation
As I say this is where I think that difference lies, as with yourself, I would go as far as to say i did not volitionaly meditate…kundalini meditated, me! Lol.
Laz 03/11/21:
I mean I think the same was true for Gopi really, but he didn’t know when to stop meditating. I found that I didn’t need it after my awakening. I can imagine it having a detrimental effect once it has served it’s purpose.
Jane 03/11/21
It seemed as if prolonged concentration had opened a yet partially developed centre in the brain which depended for its fuel on the stream of energy constantly rushing upward from the reproductive region. The enlarged conscious field was the creation of this hitherto closed chamber, which was now functioning imperfectly, first because it had been forced open prematurely, and secondly because I was utterly ignorant of the way to adjust myself to the new development
I think that is the biggest challenge for anyone, adjustment to the new development.
No one could even suspect what was happening to me inside. I knew that but a thin line now separated me from lunacy, and yet I gave no indication of my condition to anyone. I suffered unbearable torture in silence, weeping internally at the sad turn of events, blaming myself bitterly again and again for having delved into the supernatural without first acquiring a fuller knowledge of the subject and providing against the dangers and risks of the path
Again, I would say the same as in no one knew what I was going through, I don’t think they suspected much? I think my husband thought I was depressed?
Laz 03/11/21:
Ahem! As you know I didn’t keep things to myself, to my detriment!
Jane 04/11/21:
I know but under the circumstances you was dealing with I would have thought it would have been extremely difficult to hide?
Laz 03/11/21:
To open for my own good. Funnily enough, I had the NHS mental health team on the phone to me again this morning, trying to get me to “come in”. But I won’t go, nor will I have anything to to with them. If they want me to see them, they will have to section me and drag me there!
Jane 03/11/21:
but I knew nothing about any potential dangers. Nor for that fact much about the yoga path. Yeah, I was an ignorant innocent. Lol.
Laz 03/11/21:
Same here, I do remember digging deep to something like “ancestral knowledge” or “DNA repositories of memories” for guidance however, and that seemed to do the trick for me successful navigation of the experience. Very weird though!
Jane 04/11/21:
Do you mean you was digging deep inside yourself for that knowledge?
Laz 04/11/21:
Well not my consciousness, as this all came from my subconscious, so I was thinking where could that be stored π
Jane 03/11/21:
Even at the times of greatest dejection, and even when almost at the breaking point, something inside prevented me from consulting a physician
Well we all seemed to recognise intuitively that was a tricky road π
Laz 03/11/21:
I can confirm that it is and remains so, as I had an outside influence forcing me to take this road, sadly. I mean what a dumb thing to do on the part of a “mental health professional” – to harass someone with a history of a persecution complex!
Jane 03/11/21:
The little knowledge of diseases that I possessed was enough to tell me that my abnormality was unique, that it was neither purely psychic nor purely physical, but the outcome of an alteration in the nervous activity of my body, which no therapist on earth could correctly diagnose or cure. On the other hand, a single mistake in treatment in that highly dangerous condition, when the whole system was in a state of complete disorder and not amenable to control, might have proved fatal. Mistakes were inevitable in view of the entirely obscure and unidentifiable nature of the disease
What surprises me here is that Gopi refers to it as a “disease”? But then again, lack of ease, I would agree with.
Laz 03/11/21:
I think he meant that his knowledge of diseases allowed for him to rule out his condition as such a disease. He refers to his condition as an abnormality.
Jane 03/11/21:
I did not know then what I came to grasp later onβthat an automatic mechanism, forced by the practice of meditation, had suddenly started to function with the object of reshaping my mind to make it fit for the expression of a more heightened and extended consciousness, by means of biological processes as natural and as governed by inviolable laws as the evolution of species or the development and birth of a child. But to my great misfortune I did not know this at the time. To the best of my knowledge, this mighty secret of nature is not known on earth today, although there is ample evidence to show that certain methods to deal with the condition, when brought about suddenly by the practice of Hatha Yoga, were fully known to the ancient adepts
That is exactly how I would describe it when Kundalini took me over… automatic mechanism at work π
Laz 03/11/21:
Me three π
Jane 03/11/21:
The popular books on Yoga that I had read years before contained no hint of such an abnormal development and nerve-shattering experience. The learned authors confined themselves to the description of various postures and methods, all borrowed from the ancient writings on the subject. Few of them claimed to have had the experience but were eager to teach to others what they had never learned themselves. In some of the books there was a passing reference to Kundalini Yoga" seventh centre in the brain" That is what makes a good teacher in one who has the theory but not a claimed experience. Honesty. By definition they could not have known of those "abnormal developments and nerve-shattering experiences".
I agree with the description of abnormal developments but the fact Gopi describes it as “nerve-shattering” to me also indicates a forced arousing and awakening before his nervous system was able to take it. I mean I did have physical nerve/pain problems very early on in my own experience before my mind had balanced but not in or following my full kundalini activation/awakening. Plus, I am not sure if the term nerve shattering here is meant to refer to physical or mental?
Laz 03/11/21:
I can relate to both physical and mental shattering π
Jane 03/11/21:
DURING recent times there have hardly been any instances of individuals in whom the serpent fire burnt ceaselessly from the day of awakening of Kundalini to the last, bringing about mental transformations known to and hinted at by the ancient sages of India. But that there have been many cases of a sporadic type in which the shakti* was active intermittently admits of no doubt. The mystics and saints of all countries, who from an early age are prone to transcendental visions and pass occasionally into ecstatic trances, thereafter reverting to their normal consciousness belong to the latter category. The psychics and mediums and all those possessing the power of clairvoyance, mind reading, prediction, and similar supernormal faculties owe their surprising gifts to the action of an awakened Kundalini, operating in a limited way in the head without reaching the highest centre, when it only overshadows the whole consciousness. The same is true of the men of genius in whom the energy feeds certain specific regions of the brain, stimulating them to extraordinary phases of intellectual, literary, or artistic activity. In all the cases mentioned above, either the flow of the more potent vital current is so regulated and circumscribed that it does not create any disturbance in the system or, as in the case of mystics in whom the impact of the current on the brain is very powerful at times
So as an example of those that use the siddhis? The esoterics describe such creatives that he describes as uses of the kundalini mind energy ( “in the head” ) at a lower voltage.
Laz 03/11/21:
Yeah, so those clairs he mentions previous to this.
Jane 03/11/21:
When I referred to the difference between little k kundalini and big K kundalini energies I was making an analogy to these different levels of consciousness stimulation and voltage.
Laz 03/11/21:
Yes, I get it π
Jane 03/11/21:
the condition begins at birth so that the nervous system usually becomes accustomed to it from infancy, when one is not aware of the variations in consciousness nor able to place a meaning on the abnormal happenings in the body and feel the sense of fear. But even so, the latter have often to face many a crisis and to endure unusual suffering and torment before they acquire a stable and peaceful condition of the mind and are in a position to study and express comprehensively the experience which marks them as a class apart from the normal run of mortals. The individuals belonging to these categories, excepting mystics, do not perceive the luminosity and the movement of nervous currents, except in exceptional cases, as the flow of the vital energy is too restricted to create weird effects. Moreover, having been an integral part of the organism from birth, it becomes an inherent trait of their personalities"
So does this mean those born awake? Like they are better equipped so it is not really noticed as much ? Do you think this could be relevant in some of your experiences? You know, as a modern day mutant π
Laz 03/11/21:
Maybe π I mean, I have no comparison to any other life to know one way or the other!
Jane 03/11/21:
In only one or two writings were there vague hints of dangers to be met on the path. The nature of the danger and the methods to prevent or overcome it were not explained by the authors
Like I say in my innocent role I was never consciously aware of any dangers. Even my preparation work seemed to be done on automatic mode.
in desperation went to consult a learned ascetic from Kashmir who had come to spend the winter at Jammu. He heard me with patience and said that the experience I had undergone could not at all be due to the awakening of the serpent power, as that was always blissful and could not be associated with any agency liable to cause disease or disturbance. He made another gruesome suggestion, heard from his teacher or picked up from some ancient work, to the effect that my malady was probably due to the venom of malignant spirits that beset the path of Yogis, and prescribed a decoction, which I never took
I do not think any person with factual knowledge of kundalini could make such a claim, that Gopi had not undergone an awakening nor that it is always blissful and cannot cause problems.
Laz 03/11/21:
Oh I agree but there are plenty of fearmongers out there that will scare people off regardless!
Jane 03/11/21:
But I can understand why they probably told him that he had obstructions. But I do wonder what sort of bullshit concoction he was given π
There was, however, one very briefly stated injunctionβcall it accident or divine guidanceβit was to the effect that during the course of the practice the student is not permitted to keep his stomach empty, but should take a light meal every three hours. This brief advice, flashing across my brain at a most critical moment when I hovered between life and death and had lost every hope of survival, saved my life and sanity and continues to do so to this day
I discovered this same thing at an early stage, the act of fasting stopped my mind from grounding.
Laz 03/11/21:
Yes me too, diet became a huge issue for me.
Jane 03/11/21:
Eating heavy types of food does bring the focus of the mind down for those who have such difficulty. When I was first unwell with digestive problems I could not swallow food and had no appetite. Using cannabis resolved these issues and the munchies forced me to eat. I only did so in the evening as I did not want to use cannabis continuously. This meant I did not eat until evenings so it was like a daily fasting phase but I think now that was the planned course for me at that time. In fact I know now how everything was basically “planned” out for me. π
My brother-in-law could not grasp the significance of what I related to him, but said that his guru had once remarked that if by mistake Kundalini were aroused through any other nadi (nerve) except Sushumna, there was every danger of serious psychic and physical disturbances, ending in permanent disability, insanity, or death. This was particularly the case, the teacher had said, if the awakening occurred through pingala on the right side of the spine when the unfortunate man is literally burned to death due to excessive internal heat, which cannot be controlled by any external means
From Google: The ability to balance Ida and Pingala, and cause Prana to flow in Sushumna is the most essential preparation for Meditation and Kundalini Awakening. The Ida and Pingala nadis are often seen as referring to the two hemispheres of the brain. Pingala is the extroverted, solar nadi, and corresponds to left hemisphere. Ida is the introverted, lunar nadi, and refers to the right hemisphere of the brain. Ida nadi controls all the mental processes while Pingala nadi controls all the vital processes.
So that means problems with Ida will cause psychological issues, and problems with Pingula will cause physical problems?
– IdΔ has a moonlike nature and feminine energy with a cooling effect.
– Pingala has a sunlike nature and masculine energy. Its temperature is heating.
So this must be what caused my experiences in extremes of temperature in my activation. At one point In the freezing cold room in the winter I was sweating so much, I was naked lying on a towel.
Laz 03/11/21:
I’m gonna say it again, me too π
Jane 03/11/21:
Another point was when half of my body was absolutely frozen yet the other half was so hot at the same time like my body was split into two. something I was unable to comprehend, until now π
Do you think that spontaneous human combustion, if there is such a thing, could be caused by kundalini energy passing through the wrong channel?
Laz 03/11/21:
Yes I do π it is also how those yogis can sit surrounded in snow and ice for long periods and melt it with their body heat.
Jane 03/11/21:
I ask with curiosity because I am recalling that there was an incident where my friend had inhaled something, I don’t know what, he was desperate to get high and a few hours later we watched and I monitored as the top of his whole right foot literally burned up, first it started to redden, like a scold, then blistered and turned into what looked just like an electrical burn, deep in the flesh and that was caused from no external source! It was a real mess for months. There was no other logical explanation for it as I watched it unfold. Obviously the hospital could only conclude it was caused by something external but described it as looking like an electrical burn. There was an actual pattern running through the wound once it was raw and open that looked just like the branches pattern seen in electricity injuries as it passes through the body. I know it is like an electric current passing through you but I have never found it to be harmful, quite the contrary for me. There was also a small less severe burn on his right hand and one on his body.
Google: The left channel is ida, cooling The right channel is pingula, burning. The Ida and Pingala nadis are sometimes in modern readings interpreted as the two hemispheres of the brain. Pingala is the extroverted (Active), solar nadi, and corresponds to the right hand side of the body and the left hand side of the brain.
So to me it is a reasonable conclusion that it was that forced overload of energy. It was not good but simultaneously fascinating to me. That experience really did kind of blow my obsessively curious mind, at the time π
I did have pictures but I have deleted hospital records along with all other “apps” on my tablet from that “matrix- reloaded” mission. I have unloaded it all. π It all just seems like a filed away memory of experience to me now π
I thought desperately and as if by divine dispensation the idea flashed across my brain to make a last-minute attempt to rouse Ida, or the lunar nerve on the left side, to activity, thus neutralizing the dreadful burning effect of the devouring fire within
At least he had the knowledge and foresight to recognise that π
On another subject, what do you make of Zuckerberg’s metaverse? Seems to be a further manipulation of virtual “reality”?
Laz 03/11/21:
It’s exactly what people said about facebook, becoming public. We’ve known for years that he’s sold our “metadata” collected from the interactions we had on facebook, so it’s just him confirming it. My account is deleted now however, so all they know about me stopped about 6 months ago. Nothing further to sell π
Jane 03/11/21:
A metamatrix perhaps?
Laz 03/11/21:
This is the conspiracy theory of the moment, that he will create a matrix-like VR system as part of the Great Reset! It’s been apparent to me for a while (probs because I have a VR setup) that we are being lead to believe you can have an experience of being out of the home using VR, while still being sat at home.
Jane 04/11/21:
You have a virtual reality set up? Isn’t that what they already are? Where you can visit places? Or has the home ones not got that far yet?
Laz 04/11/21:
The sensory experience is not there yet, and it makes one feel sick if you use it too much! There are no open world programs for VR as far as I know, yet.
Jane 04/11/21:
I mean that would kind of blow you away in mind and possibly body! Lol.
Jane 04/11/21:
I have seen it on these high tech programmes. Tell me more about this theory in terms of the Great Reset π
Laz 04/11/21:
So clearly they (WEF) want us to stay at home as much as possible, and the VR facilitates this and as it gets better and more invasive, visiting locations around the world will seem like you are actually there. Then there’s the Matrix idea on top of this, such that slowly humans will voluntarily spend all their lives in VR and never go anywhere. There was something I read the other day about harvesting body heat to offset your carbon footprint!
Laz 04/11/21:
They could use those yogis, put them to some use!
Jane 03/11/21:
And one I am sure many will want to escape into?
Laz 03/11/21:
To be honest If I could make use of my gaming skills in there to make money, I would without hesitation!
Jane 04/11/21:
Are you that skilled at it? What kind of games do you play?
Laz 04/11/21:
All sorts, at the moment it’s mainly 3; Fortnite, Wipeout 2048, and Demons Souls π
Jane 04/11/21:
I have heard of Fortnite, the kids are really into that π
Jane 03/11/21:
Sitting with a box on their head. Lmao. The complex and fascinating world of the human mind π Who knows? Maybe it will turn out to be a counteraction to the idiocracy? π
Laz 03/11/21:
For some, yes. But for most it will be the Matrix battery solution for humans π
Jane 04/11/21:
Lol. What do you mean, humans as the battery cells? Or the solution that they surround themselves with? Maybe both!
Jane 09/11/21:
We may gain a glimpse of how enlightenment can be accounted for psychologically. I do not mean explained, only 'given an account of'. Evidently, there is an archetypal experience of the circulation or flow of light which has been formulated in many cultures and times into various terms that we now call 'psychic energy'. The flow of this psychic energy in its totality is the entire psychological self, or the Self. When the partial system of the ego is released to, identifies with, or is overwhelmed by, the self, an experience of enlightenment ensues
I do not think that “psychic energy” is denoted by literal flow of light here but is a metaphor. I think it is all basically referring to a “charged” pranic energy? But it is interesting how they describe it as an energy that takes the archetypal path and culminates in totality as the Self because that is what I perceived the whole path of the heroes journey to be π
As A. Bharati points out in his The Tantric Traditio (London, 1965, p. 290), 'if an adept seems to "act mad" it is just because people around him do not see what it is all about, as they are lacking the adept's frame of reference'. Tantric preceptors deny mental disease en route to samadhi and warn the adept: 'Do not think the mind is sick when there is samadhi.'
Therefore, Gopi Krishna was following the tradition by avoiding professional help, and by staying within the guidelines of tradition he guaranteed his own sanity
I think this explains it well. But when it is spontaneous and unknown to the experiencer themselves I would say that one equally has no point of reference, in fact even less so maybe not even realising one is an adept? It may have been beneficial had we known what was going on, as in….within the guidelines of tradition that Gopi was at least familiar with?
Laz 10/11/21:
Yeah, I had no Idea what was going on, but I did know that I did not want any medical entanglements. Unfortunately it was my wife that forced me down that road, and it is a road I regret travelling.
And Carl Jung. If there is one thing about history I wish had been different it was that his views on Kundalini had been adopted by the mainstream psychologists π
Jane 9/11/21:
Our author was at once confronted with this problem, and the major part of the book deals not with the experiences, but with their integration. The road to the enlightenment experience has been made much shorter with modern hallucinatory drugs and other techniques. The real issue is how to integrate these experiences, how to live with them, how to kee them from overwhelming the body and external reality, how to translate them into awareness and human service, how to ground them in the world, in other words, the 'return', how to return with them to the human condition
Yes I think this integration period is the most complex part following a major kundalini episode, mentally, psychologically and spiritually. I guess it could be seen as a process of moving oneself into a new space? I think in our cases, due to the innocent aspect it also takes quite some time to make sense of everything. I don’t know about you, but I still am!
Laz 10/11/21:
3 years for me to integrate π I wonder if there is a way to shorten the time, I’m guessing but it feels like someone else having a Scooby Doo about what the sufferer is going through would shorten the time π
Jane 12/11/21:
So I have thought about this and to be honest I am not sure it would have made any difference, not for me anyway, that integration for me was such a personally felt thing. I don’t think anyone else could have helped me to make the realisations about myself. I think it is an assimilation process that by definition takes time π
Laz 10/11/21:
There’s always more to learn, but for me I have a mental framework to hang everything off now which is logical and has answered many of the questions I have about life, the universe, and everything π
Jane 09/11/21:
In addition to the fear of madness, the inner derangement of mind, other events occurred which we call in the language of psychopathology, 'depersonalization', 'disorientation', 'alienation'. The sense of belonging to his own body here-and-now and the feeling connection to his own family were among the first attachments to go. These secondary symptoms, as well as those of roaring or other sounds and visual distortions which our author describes, belong too to the symptomatology of various psycho-pathological states called: paranoid, schizophrenic, epileptoid
I do remember a degree of paranoia at one stage but I did not experience the sounds nor visual distortions Gopi did, I would say the major distortions for me were mental as distortions in my perceived reality in things like the psychodramas. I still have those ‘symptoms’ of things like depersonalization and so called alienation? I would say derealisation too where one is seen as not living in the ‘real world’ , paradoxically the reality I see is not the fake one others see? I see that as the illusion/maya so that is what is not real to me, It is all backwards isnt it?
Laz 10/11/21:
Yes, sadly π The last two years has really shown me how tied up in an illusion we all are as a species, and that Tower of Lies idea of mine must be really bad for the majority who have invested in believing the BS that we are fed on a daily basis.
Jane 09/11/21:
I think that is what happens with such a paradigm shifting of perceptions. Or could that be in those who do not fully “return”? I think that is why VR fascinates me because already I see the matrix as a kind of VR. So this technology is VR within an already realm of VR to me but Just another dimension of it. I think it is true that eventually people won’t be able to distinguish between them.
Laz 10/11/21:
If we take The Matrix analogy here, Neo escapes The Matrix, but can plug himself back in at any time. He’s not the same as he was anymore, and looks around at all the “locked in” people going on as before, believing the lies and repeating them. Have you had the experience of a “locked in” person becoming a system agent like in the movie? I’ve seen it happen way to many times.
Jane 12/11/21:
Not towards me personally but I definitely see it in the world at large.
Jane 09/11/21:
One might well imagine that had our author presented himself with this syndrome at a usual Western psychiatric clinic he would have been diagnosed in the way that he himself intuitively feared. From the psychiatric view, was this experience not a psychotic episode?
I know you said you felt like forwarding the Kundalini or psychosis pdf document we have discussed to the doctors you dealt with π but I think even that falls well short in explanation and in particular in comprehension to western professional minds. I think due to the differences in culture, what is seen as more simple to the easterns, I think it is still far too complex for most western mindsets. Unfortunately any mention of higher consciousness or enlightenment is seen as deluded to most in our culture. I think that may be due to their own inability to contemplate or comprehend the possibility?
Laz 10/11/21:
So I feel that we have a rigid culture in this country, and it is very difficult for people to think differently to the education and training they have had, and phrases like “following my procedure” and “it is against our protocol” are used in lieu of thinking for themselves, which could be seen as not doing as you are told. We have become ant like or drone like as a culture. You are not allowed to think for yourself!
Jane 12/11/21:
As I have said previously I did feel a part of that hive mentality prior to my awakening, only on escaping it did I even recognise it, but it is definitely getting more hive/drone like.
Jane 09/11/21:
With this question we come to the heart of a Western problem. We have no other than these diagnostic categories for conceiving states of this kind. Alien and altered states of consciousness are the province of the alienist
What are “alienists”? …..people like us, maybe? Sounds about right π
Fortunately, Gopi Krishna had another set of concepts (Kundalini yoga) which could place within a non-pathological context what was going on. In so far as the awakening of Kundalini is not limited to the Indian sub-continent only, it is conceivable that some of the experiences described in Western psychiatric interviews could also be viewed as the beginnings of enlightenment rather than as the beginnings of insanity. (I think in particular of epilepsy and of Dostoevsky.) The touchstone, again, is the same: the way in which the personality handles the experience, the integration of it
Yes as we have already said it is only in changes evident in the person, those categoric consequences of such an experience that shows only over time if it is an awakening. But maybe only we alone can easily recognise the changes in ourselves even if others cannot? And sometimes those changes whilst seen as a progress for us can be easily misperceived through misunderstandings from others.
I see no reason why we cannot accept our author's own view of the heat episode. Can our psychology provide a better explanation of it? It can be compared with some of the wrong turns in alchemy in which there is too much sulphur and the work is burnt black; or where the fire itself (the inner heat, or tapas) is not kept at a low slow temperature but rages
I think that is a good analogy from human alchemy and possibly gives a hint to how spontaneous human combustion can come about?
Laz 10/11/21:
I think all historical alchemy was metaphor, and the Gold they sought was from human lead! It was quite simply the search for enlightenment.
Jane 09/11/21:
Gopi Krishna did not split the archetype of the healed one and the wounded one. He stayed right with his ambivalence, believing and doubting, feeling himself found and lost at the same time. This ambivalence was his balance
I am unsure what this means, can you explain? Does it mean he did not split the archetypes into two? Like tackle both sides?
Laz 10/11/21:
I’m surprised you didn’t leap into a non-duality jag on this π So I think it is like that middle way philosophy or Rebis again, it’s like do not identify yourself with either pleasure or pain, but instead accept that both are valid. Do not identify as purely male or female. Don’t go getting drunk if you cannot handle the hangover afterwards! We should not be consumed by the search for happiness, and accept that sadness is not to be shunned but should be equally experienced. Don’t try to obtain Siddhis and think you are god, but know that when the time is right you may receive gifts, or communicate with the source of consciousness and it means nothing!
Jane 12/11/21:
OK that makes sense π
Jane 09/11/21:
I hesitated for nearly twenty years in making the experience public because in the first place, I wanted to make myself completely sure about my own condition
I have always just wanted to make myself completely invisible to the public /matrix realm π
Laz 10/11/21:
Can’t say the same here, but I do know that showing ones colours in the Matrix leads to a hard life! I guess I’m ultimately either an eternal optimist, or stubborn fool.
09/11/21:
Whether the aim be religious experience, communication with disincarnate spirits, the vision of reality, liberation of the soul, or the gift of clairvoyance and prediction, the power to influence people or success in worldly undertakings by supernatural means or any other mundane or super-mundane objective, connected with the occult or divine, the desire springs from the same psychosomatic source and is a twig or branch of the same deeply rooted tree
I think for me out of this list my only aim or goal being source willed for me, was maybe for the vision of reality and liberation of the soul.
Laz 10/11/21:
I didn’t even know what those things were. My experience was of a curious child, thinking and feeling and sensing that something didn’t add up. I didn’t know what it was or what I was searching for, only that the search felt “right”. It lead me down a number of rabbit holes and dead ends until ultimately I found Kundalini; the Philosopher’s Stone! Holy Grail! Ultimate Prize!
Jane 09/11/21:
It must be said at once to avoid misunderstanding that the cult of Kundalini was not the only path by which the ancients approached the difficult-to-reach domain of the supernatural; there existed contemporaneously other creeds, schools, and systems dealing with the mysterious and the supernatural. As happens even during these days, the followers of the various sects must have tried to tear each other down, belittling the methods of their rivals and extolling their own. The existence of this unceasing warfare, as is obvious, could not but be detrimental to the general acceptance of the system relating to Kundalini, which in consequence was relegated to the background, especially because of the rigid physical regimen, the magnitude of the risk and last but not the least the rarity of a successful consummation, and in the course of time was consigned to the lumber room of obsolete creeds. It can also be said without any fear of contradiction that the rise of all great religions of the world, in spite of the fact that each is rooted inextricably in the soil prepared and watered by this prehistoric cult, contributed not a little to eclipse the creed of Kundalini as an honoured and established system of mental and physical discipline for gaining approach to the transcendental
I think even though many teachings/texts do not mention kundalini by name it is just put in a different tribe like language of terminology. It is in all secret mystery cults and religions. I think the secrecy over kundalini knowledge was tribal and even someone like Dion Fortune found such animosity amongst the secret societies and in her case I really do believe she was intent on keeping to the purity of things, she did not use the term kundalini but I clearly recognised it as what she described as an electric type of energy that people like the original masons were seeking. I think the teachings just became degraded or at least the practices did?
The thing is one is either worthy or they are not! It cannot be faked energetically due to the frequencies…We can prepare ourselves but kundalini choses you! It is described here as ‘the rigid physical regime” that was too difficult for people, but for me it was more on a rigid mental level regime, or maybe that is what it means? That is where the real work/battles go on.
Laz 10/11/21:
Yes π although I’ve yet to answer the question of “Now what?”
Jane 12/11/21:
That really is the biggest question to ponder I think once you have come through the whole ordeal, it seems even brother Gopi had the same thoughts π
Jane 09/11/21:
When it says confined to the lumber room, what does that mean? Without consummation it is confined to lower levels? Like it remains in the mundane ?
Laz 10/11/21:
Not really sure, there was no attachment to your email so I don’t have the source material.
Jane 09/11/21:
Excepting the abnormal physiological reactions and the existence and extraordinary behaviour of the luminous vital currents in the body, which to uninitiated and unprepared subjects like me are sure to bring a host of terrors in their wake, there is nothing in my experience which even remotely approaches the uncanny and entirely abnormal phenomena witnessed by professional mediums and other psychic subjects
I had no doubt that Kundalini was now fully awake in me, but there was absolutely no sign of miraculous psychic and mental powers associated with it by the ancients
I don’t think true seekers do experience these things, apart from maybe during the siddhis testing period? I think experiencers/seekers have this notion that such phenomena is necessary as proof of attainment but I do not believe that myself. Rather there seems to be an aversion to such things and absence of such experiences in those who are genuine.
Laz 10/11/21:
As I suggested above, I do think they are available when needed, or as the situation occurs, but like you point out they are not to be coveted and are used as a test of worth when one can show they are disregarded.
Jane 09/11/21:
What made me hesitate in according publicity to it is the unique nature of the phenomenon; it neither falls in line with the known manifestations observed in mediums, nor does it seem similar in kind to the recorded experience of any known mystic or saint, Eastern or Western
I agree with Gopi here, having studied experiences of saints and mystics, none of them correspond with my own experience. As we know well having read accounts there is a difference and huge variation between kundalini activation in people and the success of an enlightened outcome.
It does not signify merely the development of the intellect or reason, which are but instruments of the indwelling spirit, but of the whole personality, of both its conscious and subconscious parts, which involves an overhauling and reshaping of the organic machine to make it a fit abode for a higher intelligence, essentially superior in nature to that which resides in the normal human body. It is for this reason that the mode of conduct or intellectual activity normal to a prophet appears entirely beyond the capacity of the average man, whose mind, flooded with passion at the touch of the beloved or assailed by desire at the sight of a coveted object, has seldom been able to live up to the standard of morality prescribed by the former, whose brain, fed by a higher form of vital energy permeating the whole personality, belongs more to heaven than to earth
I definitely required an overhauling and reshaping! Mainly of my mind! Lol. Well i would say the “average man” has a limited state of conscious awareness so is quite naturally attached to worldly goods and possessions, due to egoic and emotional attachment and the cultures of our times. Seen as the average mans “life” where he is fully plugged into the matrix….but still consciously experiencing for source. I don’t think that a personality that belongs more to heaven has such attachments nor ego? They would rather lay their treasures up in heaven π We could not pass through the eye of the needle with baggage.
Laz 10/11/21:
Yes I agree. For yours is the kingdom, the power and the glory π I read the other day that the Eye of the Needle was not a real needle, but rather was a Gate in a wall around Jerusalem that people had to duck to get through! Not looked it up to confirm, but otherwise I never understood this rich man proverb!
Jane 12/11/21:
I see it as in a consciousness gate. What this means to me is that a rich man is too attached to his worldly goods and in not being able to let them go his consciousness is not able to go to a higher level by passing through the opening. You cannot take anything but yourself, there is no baggage allowance on that trip π
Jane 09/11/21:
"I continued to pay careful attention to my diet, as experience had now made me fully alive to the fact that my life and sanity depended on it. I did not eat in excess of the quantity I deemed proper for myself, fixing the amount according to the reaction of my digestive parts, nor did I allow any delicacy to tempt me to depart from my self-imposed regimen. There was reason enough to make me extremely cautious on this score, as the slightest indiscretion in respect to the quantity or quality of the food consumed and any disregard of time created results and reactions so disagreeable and distressing as to make me upbraid myself severely for having committed the mistake. This happened time after time as if to impress indelibly upon my mind the fact that from now onwards I had not to eat for pleasure or the mechanical satisfaction of hunger, but to regulate the intake of food with such precision as not to cause the least strain on my oversensitive and over-stimulated nervous system"
So my strict/directed notable dietary issues as I said before was a basic and totally natural diet for a 6 week period. Nothing but fruit, vegetables, meat, fish and nuts. And I spent a long phase having nothing that would in any way chemically affect me, no stimulants like caffeine or sugar at all. I think that was the phase where I had wound down in the matrix physical realm. Lol. Think hibernation π I also ate in a kind of strict regimented way to basically survive not for any pleasure of food.
I noticed that you suffered from food intolerances? Does Gopi’s account here resonate with your experience?
Laz 10/11/21:
Oh yes, it was one of the things that I saw in him as brother experiencer, and of course you as sister π
Jane 09/11/21:
Considering the colossal nature of the physical and mental metamorphosis that has to be effected as a prelude to spiritual un-foldment, I do not wonder at the acompanying trials and tribulations, since the mystic state represents the last and most arduous lap of the journey which began with man's ascent from dust; it terminates with his tasting, after suffering and travail, the incomparable bliss of unembodied existence, not after death, but within his span of life on earth
Yes I would certainly agree that it took a metamorphosis in me for the 3 years of preparation prior to my kundalini strike. You know how extreme my mind had to change, not to burn in hell, lmao. Just kidding. But I think this unknowing to me, mental/psychological fixing in preparation could be what makes my experience different to Gopi’s?
Kundalini is as natural and effective a device for the attainment of a higher state of consciousness and for transcendental experience as the reproductive system is an effective natural contrivance for the perpetuation of the race. The contiguity of the two is a purposely designed arrangement, as the evolutionary tendency and the stage of progress reached by the parent organism can only be transmitted and perpetuated through the seed
Does this mean seed as only applied to males? Or are they referring to seeds here as an analogy of seeds of consciousness?
Laz 10/11/21:
Given my understanding of Indian culture, yes it probably does refer to sperm! I don’t see it that way however, and while I agree with him in gross terms, i think either the sperm or the egg can fulfil this purpose π
Jane 09/11/21:
The completely isolated nature of individual consciousness, caused by the segregating effect of the ego, makes it impossible for any man to look into the locked compartment of another mind, even of one nearest and dearest to him. This utter lack of access of one mind to another has given rise to certain common misconceptions which it will take a long time to remove from human thought
As we know common misconceptions that are inevitable with assumptions and misperceptions that are very difficult to change. I sometimes wonder would things be easier if we could all telepathically communicate with each other with our nearest and dearest and so know exactly what each other are dealing with instantly, without having to be told, like just tune in. Lol.
Laz 10/11/21:
I believe Ali thinks that this already happens and she can communicate with me telepathically!
Jane 12/11/21:
Maybe she can? Do you feel she can? I think that being in a long term partnership, well for me anyway, we do seem to connect on a nonverbal level, I often can tell what my husband is thinking and he very often will pick up on things that I need without me having to ask him. Not sure I’d class it as telepathy, maybe more intuition?
Jane 09/11/21:
But maybe open access to everyone’s minds could bring about it’s own problems? Lol.
Laz 10/11/21:
See the movie Bruce Almighty for a good example!
Jane 09/11/21:
There was no doubt an extraordinary change in my nervous equipment, and a new type of force was now racing through my system connected unmistakably with the sexual parts, which also seemed to have developed a new kind of activity not perceptible before. The nerves lining the parts and the surrounding region were all in a state of intense ferment, as if forced by an invisible mechanism to produce the vital seed in abnormal abundance to be sucked up by the network of nerves at the base of the spine for transmission into the brain through the spinal cord. The sublimated seed formed an integral part of the radiant energy which was causing me such bewilderment and about which I was as yet unable to speculate with any degree of assurance
What does he mean by intense ferment? Sexual arousal? I know that early on I found that energy extremely sexual and at times intolerably intense, I think I had to learn to handle it because It’s voltage could at times feel like a taser.
Laz 10/11/21:
Like a bubbling of activity, a need to be fulfilled. When taken literally, the bubbling of fermentation π
Jane 09/11/21:
The principal idea is simple: semen is that fluid in the body most highly charged with prana. Occult anatomy envisages a direct connection between the genitals and the nervous system, either via brain and spine or via the blood. Loss of seed means loss of that vital essence which is the source of the living liquid light. Semen must therefore be discerned and discharged upwards rather than outwards, thereby adding to the internal circulation of prana. Bharati (op. cit.) speaks of the difference between Buddhist and Hindu attitudes. The former, as the Taoists, retain the semen; the latter discharge it (left-hand path of Tantrism) as sacrifice. In each of these varied traditions one idea stands out: the transformation of consciousness requires the transformation of sexuality which takes place through ritual
*basic shakti. ....Shakti. from Google. "We can integrate Shiva and Shakti within our inner consciousness, within our entire being. These sacred powers can open us up and transform our very being.The Shakti energy within us can take the form of prana, that life force energy that flows through our nadis or subtle energy channels.It can also take the form of kundalini energy, that coiled energy that lies dormant at the base of the spine until it is unleashed. When this happens, a kundalini awakening occurs, in which the Shakti energy awakens and moves through the central channel, or the sushuma nadi along which the seven chakras reside. This is when deep cleansing, healing and transformation takes place β and it all happens through the movement of Shakti energy within"
I finally think I have some answers to my curiosity :)It is really interesting that in Buddhism they retain sexual energy but Hindus discharge it. This was a major difference between yours and Gopi’s and my own experience. This was one of the greatest curiosities for me in that i had released orgasmic energy repeatedly prior to my Kundalini brain strike and if in doing so i had done the wrong or right thing. The strike happened at a later time to the orgasms but i know that the energy was part of the process i was going through to reach that strike. Obviously i do not ejaculate, but was I releasing the sexual energy or actually building it up? Would it have been quicker had I let it build up? Not release it, ..or was the releases 27 times, lol. necessary as it may have blown my mind! ? Lmao.
Laz 11/10/21:
No idea π
Jane 09/11/21:
It has really surprised me in that how much Buddhism is so different to Hinduism on this issue on different paths and I only knew stuff about kundalini energy from the Buddhist (specifically male) perspective up to now. The Hindus perspective is very different and correlates to my own personal experience that I felt had no control over. So to me this is the first text I have read that finally confirms that I was following a specific route and i did not do the wrong thing π I have never read a convincing female account that I could relate to. In female saint accounts all they say on the subject is they had “erotic visions of Christ” but no mention or even hint of anything else.
Our text refers to unusual ferment in the genital parts and to the production of an increased abundance of semen. This runs contrary to the usual notions that yoga is an ascetic discipline through which the sexual impulse is depotentiated Just not! And we can understand why chastity and continence and other sexual mysti-tiques (including the orgy and black mass) belong archetypally to the discipline of the 'holy man'. It is not that he has less sexuality than others, but more. (For example, an early sign of the call to shamanism among the American Mohave Indians is frequent childhood masturbation.) The 'holy man' as 'greater personality' implies the endowment of greater sexuality; therefore, the transformation of it raises all sorts of problems, answers to which have been formulated in various esoteric techniques and disciplines, West and East, of which chastity and the ritual copulation of *Tantric maithuna would be opposite poles of the same archetypal formulation
I am like wow! I googled it, so this could finally explain the differences in our experiences, between the male experience and the female experience of raising kundalini and it is interesting that it was all a part of a ritual being played out of copulation/transformation as within a known Hindu practice….Tantric manthuna.
( Google. ) " Maithuna is a ritual of transformation, and although it is expected to generate pleasure, and through this transcendental bliss, the pleasure must not be of the ego. the man should not discharge his semen. The moment of orgasm is, in theory, lost in a much longer wave of ecstasy, which does not involve ejaculation. The woman, on the other hand, may experience a conventional orgasm, and is even encouraged to do so, as this is believed to release the rajas, the vaginal secretion generated by sexual excitement. In some Tantric schools, the production of the rajas is even the main objective of maithuna:"
Another foreign term to me. So what is the rajas ? I googled it but in trying to put it within the context of this text, I cannot make head nor tail of it ? π
Laz 10/11/21:
No idea in this context, sorry π Closest I can guess is one of the three Gunas.
Jane 09/11/21:
So in your case maybe it is that ‘longer wave of ecstasy’ that makes for the sensation experience of a ‘thousand orgasms’ at once?
Laz 10/11/21:
Yes
Jane 09/11/21:
Strangely as I have said prior to my kundalini strike, I had them in equal pairs from a felt both male and female perspectives! Weird shit! Maybe this method actually was my way of the Rebis alchemical energy balancing out?
A major change in body concerns sexuality. A reorganization of the sexual impulse would seem required for every transition in planes of consciousness. Initiation rites at puberty, and marriage rites, as well as the vow of chastity for those entering religious orders, all point to the importance of sexual changes in connection with changes in states of being
The ground of possibility for any transformation of sexuality is the recognition of it as an impersonal power. The maithuna aspect of tantric yoga makes this clear. It is not my sex and my pleasure and my orgasm; it is a force that flows through me, a force of play, joy, and creation. By separating the persona lout of it, one can listen to it, obey or deny it, note its fluctuations and intentionsβall of which means relating to it objectively. Once this step has been taken, the transformation at which our author hints, including seed retention, ejaculation control, and other practices described by van Gulik and Maspero become less a matter of personal suppression, an adolescent battle between good and evil, than a detached game, at once religiously sacrificial and erotically educative
I agree with this natural progression of sexuality and I do wonder as I have said before if it is an absolute required necessity to go through all of these experiences in life of each stage of sexual impulse? Maybe that is why those who don’t pass through all of these stages do not achieve that copulation? This is also really interesting to me because that is how I would describe orgasms were like for me, detached and as if it is energy not originated from any personal sexual desire but coming straight from source and explains why I did not feel like it was my orgasms anymore, I used to laugh at the mystery and say “I have even sacrificed my orgasms, now!” and I did not mean, out of an act of suppression. Also there has to be a difference in the fact that females do not ejaculate semen or lose any seed? So are the actual biological factors also a metaphoric representation as in the “semen going up the spinal fluid to the brain” ( actually biologically impossible as a literal thing, btw) is actually not a literal thing but an energy of kundalini itself that is the same in males and females? More like a metaphysical process?
Laz 10/11/21:
Yeah it must be, sperm can’t get to ones head! but something does, I can feel it!
Jane 09/11/21:
Males and females must be equally equipped for this as sexual human beings. I mean we have similar meatbag bodies but obviously have differences in reproductive organs and so, by definition I would have thought there has to be some difference in the way the process works through them?
Laz 10/11/21:
Don’t know, I’ve always thought we are more alike than we care to admit, and place sexual differences in the way on purpose to avoid acknowledging this.
Jane 09/11/21:
So, if….
"Prana is both a super-intelligent cosmic life-energy and the subtle biological conductor in the body, that is, it is both a universal life-force and a physiological actuality. It is both immaterial and material, both independent of here-and-now yet inextricably interwoven with the life of the body. As an energy endowed with intelligence prana compares with our similar notion of spirit"
I would have thought it is prana as defined here that is involved and as such is the same thing in both males and females?
Laz 10/11/21:
Yes I would have thought so
Jane 09/11/21:
I would have thought it must play out differently psychologically due to the hormone differences. A good example already noted is that stark difference between the sexes in the fear of losing masculinity that i obviously did not experience by being female?
Laz 10/11/21:
Obviously I don’t have the opposite experience, but cannot imagine why there would not be an equal fear of losing ones femininity?
Jane 12/11/21:
I personally did not experience this but maybe that could be because I had a very masculine like ego and personality? Considering the male and female traits required for balance, I definitely had mostly male ones.
Jane 09/11/21:
Even the Kundalini itself is a snake. The animal that is divine is the wisdom of nature, or the wisdom of the body, that knows from primeval times with a knowledge which we cannot hope to emulate no matter what we read. Noah saved what was holy in the creation: life, the animals; the Torah came later. It is the animal in us who cannot read. The 'serpent power' itself seemed to be demanding his obedience by preventing him from seeking another master with another kind of knowledge. He had no master
Maybe this can explain our experience? The innate wisdom of our own beings. Kundalini itself was our master. Like you pointed out the fact that kundalini does you! π
The task of the Western analyst is often just that: to give an affirmation to the experiences which the other person is going through, to take them earnestly, to believe in his inner world and give credit to it. Above all, he mustn't be threatened by it or call it sick. This eminent master said that Gopi Krishna could be helped only by one who had already been there ('conducted the Shakti successfully to the Seventh Centre'). In Jungian analysis, we often say 'you can only take someone else as far as you have gone yourself. This is a limiting statement and, if taken to heart, is quite depressing both for the student and the analyst. It also shows how all of us depend upon the very few real masters who have had to go so much of the way alone. It also makes us value what Gopi Krishna did on his own, and gives our text even further significance as a document which may be of use to others
I would certainly agree with this, it would take one to know one as is said, only one who has had the experience oneself would have the ability to recognise it in another or genuinely empathise and take someone through the process by relating with another’s experiences.
Laz 10/11/21:
As do I π
Jane 09/11/21:
Gopi says…
Had I been under the guidance of a master my doubts might have been resolved on the very first day or at least on the day when I passed the crisis, but having neither the practical experience of a teacher to draw upon nor enough theoretical knowledge of the subject to enable me to form a conclusive opinion independently, I remained vacillating in my ideas about the condition. Perhaps it was destined that it should be so and that I should be guideless and without adequate knowledge to allow me to form an independent judgment about the phenomenon, without prejudice or prepossession. Perhaps it was destined also that I should suffer acutely for years because of lack of guidance and my ignorance, to enable me by suffering to make smooth the path of those in whom the sacred fire will burn in the days to come
I would say this is usually the case in those who take a solitary path. In retrospect as lonely and difficult as it was on the lone wolf path way, I still maintain that it was beneficial having no external influence nor by the following of a limited teacher π I think that even though our three experiences were not exactly the same, it is still clearly recognisable in their stark similarities π
Laz 10/11/21:
Oh yes π
Jane 09/11/21:
Like you on the desperate search for explanations, when I first read Gopi’s autobiography, I was in awe that someone had written and validated much of my own experience to the point I got full on resonance with most of the text. The only other I got that from was reading yours π
Laz 10/11/21:
Truth knows truth π
Jane 22/11/21:
What was more precious to me, the deep feelings of love for my family, which had appeared to be dead, stirred in my heart again
This was a relief to me too. I could not believe how distant i had been towards those I loved, especially my husband, I see it was all a part of the process now but as i have said there was left a kind of strangely detached space when my love turned unconditional. I think it was due to balanced transcended emotions that was an unfamiliar position to me.
during the following months my mental condition continued to be the same as already described, but there was a perceptible improvement in my bodily health, and I found my former strength and vigour gradually returning
I had unknowingly healed of my medical conditions but as I explained, because my life circumstances had not altered due to my transcended state I did not make that full realisation for quite some time but I knew that I no longer felt physically unwell.
My former appetite returned and I could eat everything I used to previously without any fear of a few morsels more or less creating a storm in my interior
Following my rigid natural diet for 6 weeks I returned to eating any old junk again.
Laz 22/11/21:
I only returned to a normal diet years after my initial problems, I was ignorant as to the cause of my problems and also stubborn in continuing with my old ways, and there was a certain embarrassment at refusing food either cooked or bought for me.