The Power Of Silence

Jane 21/10/21:

So this teaching is really making sense to me now that Carlos is bringing it all together. You are right that my new book is a helpful companion too 🙂        

"The modality of the time is the precise bundle of energy fields being perceived," he answered. "I believe man's perception has changed through the ages. The actual time decides the mode; the time decides which precise bundle of energy fields, out of an incalculable number, are to be used. And handling the modality of the time - those few, selected energy fields - takes all our available energy, leaving us nothing that would help us use any of the other energy fields."

Is this the evolution of human knowledge and understanding passing through different eras and modalities? Depending on where mans point of attention can be placed in any given era.        

Laz 21/10/21:

It may be, although I’m not sure how many eras we are looking at, I’m assuming the “new seers” are current Yaqui given these books were written in the 1970s, but how far back do the old seers go I wonder?

Jane 21/10/21:

"This is what I mean when I say that the average man lacks the energy needed to deal with sorcery," he went on. "If he uses only the energy he has, he can't perceive the worlds sorcerers do. To perceive them, sorcerers need to use a cluster of energy fields not ordinarily used. Naturally, if the average man is to perceive those worlds and understand sorcerers' perception he must use the same cluster they have used. And this is just not possible, because all his energy is already deployed." 

I would say because for most his attention is trapped in the 3d matrix and his mind attracted by his attention, assemblage point to the basic everyday world consisting of the mundane and folly. To me, most seem more plugged in to that realm than ever! Busy minds like busy bees. 🐝 lol. 

Laz 21/0/21:

Yes, I agree and would go further to say I’m not sure there have ever been more people alive with so little energy. It’s like the night of the living dead out there!

Jane 21/10/21:

“Intent”. OK. So this fact has stood out to me that my own very definition of this word seems to have caused misperceptions in my understanding. It comes down to terminology again. Intent to me implies intentional, as in a kind of wilful intent that I put down to an individual self volition but it seems the term intent here means something completely different as in, intent being nothing more than itself the energy that is being interacted with?  And I did not relate it at all as a source to knowledge?    

 

Laz 21/10/21:

I’m not sure, this definition from the first book seems to agree with your first thoughts:

Having unbending intent meant having the will to execute a necessary procedure by maintaining oneself at all times rigidly within the boundaries of the knowledge being taught.

While in the Power of Silence it is explained differently, I still feel that you were correct to begin with. if you look at how it is described: 

everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link

All this says to me is that intent has been abstracted out of the mind of an individual into a “force” that we can link to. I don’t think that there is any knowledge in “intent” itself, rather it is a well to draw from when we need it.

Jane 21/10/21:

He said that in the universe there is an unmeasurable, indescribable force which sorcerers call intent, and that absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link. Sorcerers, or warriors, as he called them, were concerned with discussing, understanding, and employing that connecting link. They were especially concerned with cleaning it of the numbing effects brought about by the ordinary concerns of their everyday lives. Sorcery at this level could be defined as the procedure of cleaning one's connecting link to intent

So a cleaning is removing the psycho bullshit that veils and disconnects from the intent of pure unlimited knowledge?

Laz 21/10/21:

Again, I’m not sure. It could be that cleaning the link is like making sure that the abstract intent is not obstructed by indecision. Like if you feel that you should do something, but your brain says, wait a minute if you do that it might be dangerous and cause you to doubt your intent.

Jane 22/10/21:

Ok that makes sense 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

“absolutely everything that exsists in the entire cosmos” And this explains our own psychological mind work we do for self discovery, including as one kind of sorcery-  Magic, being abstract thinking or something like a mind trail to knowledge or even a revelation? 

Laz 21/10/21:

As before, I think this might be a well of the force to do something, I’m not sure it is knowledge in itself. It might help to consider it as will power, which like intent may be in short supply in some people.

Jane 21/10/21:

Sorcery/magic/shamanics is simply mind manipulation. It can be black/dark from a place of non love/self interest, or it can be white/light from a place of love and no self agenda. But there is this different kind of sorcery/magic that is used on the self, so would you say that comes from a place of Source intent?    

Laz 21/10/21:

If you can equate sorcery/magic to the will power of someone, then yes this seems to fit. 

Jane 21/10/21:

sorcerers obtained knowledge directly from intent, sorcerers had gained specific insights into intent; and that they had passed these nuggets of direct knowledge on from generation to generation to the present. He said that the task of sorcery is to take this seemingly incomprehensible knowledge and make it understandable by the standards of awareness of everyday life

Laz 21/10/21:

Balls! I should have read ahead. My idea is shot then! Ummm, not sure I understand this then. I need to re-read this book 🙂 the Beginners guide is a blank here too 🙁

Jane 22/10/21:

Lol. You make me laugh. So are you going to read it again?

Laz 22/10/21:

Not sure, I’m kind of off reading books at the moment and more into watching movies 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

So is that channelling? I mean the 5d quality stuff, not the bullshit. Lol. And/or researching and compiling past ancient knowledge, assimilating it, then translating it, to an understandable level for a modern day mentality to comprehend or even resonate with?  E.g. Knowing the background story and motives of the authors who wrote the light shall set you free, that is what I believe they were doing. Using all of their mind realms including the abstract.     

Laz 21/10/21:

I’ll pass for now 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

At various times don Juan attempted to name his knowledge for my benefit. He felt that the most appropriate name was nagualism, but that the term was too obscure.

The term…”NAGUALISM” – What a interestingly thought provoking and yet quaint word… 🙂     

Because of their extraordinary energy, naguals are intermediaries. Their energy allows them to channel peace,      harmony, laughter, and knowledge directly from the source, from intent, and transmit them to their companion. Naguals are responsible for supplying what sorcerers call "the minimal chance" "the awareness of one's connection with intent"

So is this awareness of one’s connection with intent the same as surrender to Source? Or does a divine mission or search for knowledge within an individual create that intent? Or maybe attract it? Or just connect to it by intent?    

Laz 21/10/21:

In my original model of this in my head I would have disagreed, but I’m not sure now, sorry!

Jane 21/10/21:

Intent is the pervasive force that causes us to perceive. We do not become aware because we perceive; rather, we perceive as a result of the pressure and intrusion of intent. The aim of sorcerers is to reach a state of total awareness in order to experience all the possibilities of perception available to man

I get this goal because as with all such teachings it is not a literal thing but meant to be a symbolic like metaphor. A dramatisation of a vertical shift but of awareness. Like the rocket symbol for me 🚀I see it as a transcendence or expansion of the mind not a literal body thing. The rapture means the same thing it is simply moving into a higher consciousness or state of perceived awareness. You do not literally rapture up in body. What is meant by the world is never seen the same again, it means as a mind construct. the world around you does not disappear nor does it change….you do! In your perceptions of a separate reality. Like a level up in mind.     

Laz 21/10/21:

Funnily enough I’ve just watch a mini series where rapture was physical, and had strong Kundalini overtones. It was Arthur C Clarke’s Childhood’s end.

Jane 21/10/21:

We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it.

I would agree with this but the hidden power is all in and of the human mind.

Laz 21/10/21:

Yes, this has been my experience, of realising that it was always there but our society had clouded over it.

Jane 21/10/21:

Everything, all human potentially is within us. We are nothing but a mind that we can train and control. But I think that it can be difficult for a mind to perceive it as power, as such when it does not come from a place of self volition? So reaching it is no big deal either.     

"Once we have reached it, what exactly do we do with it, don Juan?"         

"Nothing. Once we have reached it, it will, by itself, make use of energy fields which are available to us but inaccessible. And that, as I have said, is sorcery. We begin then to see - that is, to perceive - something else; not as imagination, but as real and concrete. And then we begin to know without having to use words. And what any of us does with that increased perception, with that silent knowledge, depends on our own temperament."

That is how I see it, we do nothing volitionally but would say we just go with the flow…..:)

Laz 21/10/21:

Making sure it is the divine flow of course, not the flow of some human leader 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

"For sorcerers, establishing a point of reference means getting a chance to examine intent" he replied. "Which is exactly the aim of this final topic of instruction. And nothing can give sorcerers a better view of intent than examining stories of other sorcerers battling to understand the same force."     

"But they are not stories that one can tell as if they were tales. You've got to think your way through them and then rethink them - relive them, so to speak."

So is this the same as contemplating and following the archetypal heroes journey?      

Laz 21/10/21:

Yeah, I think so, Carlos’s journey was a twist on it but still had the same hallmarks, in that he was innocent, he learned about the truth, he performed a great feat, and returned to write it all down for others.

Jane 21/10/21:

"I'm going to tell you a story about the nagual Elias and the manifestation of the spirit. The spirit manifests itself to a sorcerer, especially to a nagual, at every turn. However, this is not the entire truth. The entire truth is that the spirit reveals itself to everyone with the same intensity and consistency, but only sorcerers, and naguals in particular, are attuned to such revelations."

I guess it depends on a persons attention level and the radio frequency range that can be picked up?    

Laz 21/10/21:

Yes. like it’s raining equally on everyone, but you only get wet if you throw away that brolly, and take off your coat and boots 🙂

jane 21/10/21:

"her excess energy and the injurious consequences it would have on her life and well being, and to ask her to join the sorcerers' world, as that would be the only defense against her self-destructive strength"

This reminds me of myself. I was burning out and realised how self destructive my life and mind had become and I had become to myself!  

Laz 21/10/21:

I’m sorry to read that 🙁 You can take solace in that it is not uncommon.

Jane 21/10/21:

“he continued. “The only other thing I could add is that because of the man’s absolute unwillingness to understand, the spirit was forced to use trickery. And trickery became the essence of the sorcerers’ path. But that is another story.”

I think to view it as trickery is only a human perception made by our limiting minds, maybe?

Laz 21/10/21:

It’s a bit chicken & egg for me. 

Jane 22/10/21:

That is a very good way to put it. 

Jane 21/10/21:

Once a bigger picture is seen trickery from spirit is actually nothing more than a good move made on our behalf. When the universe conspires. But I would have thought that would be different from the ways in which Don tricked Carlos? Or then again, maybe not??       

Laz 21/10/21:

Juan’s trickery with Carlos was to shake him out of his knowledge of how the world was just so, and the confidence he’d built up in that model of it over his entire life. I personally got shaken out of it at an early age by migraines making me question the existence of reality 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

Don Juan explained that sorcerers understood this abstract core to be a blueprint for events, or a recurrent pattern that appeared every time intent was giving an indication of something meaningful. Abstract cores, then, were blueprints of complete chains of events

So is this similar to the teaching that if we do not learn the lesson we are being shown first time, it comes around again, only more extreme, until we get it? 

Laz 21/10/21:

With my computer programming background I see this a bit differently in that there are underlying patterns to the world that while events and people change, there is a constant blueprint that can be seen and understood. It’s like they say “history doesn’t repeat exactly, but it does rhyme” 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

Or is the blueprint for events the recurrence of a mythological character to aspire to?    

Laz 21/10/21:

Well a good example is Neo and each iteration of The Matrix, as explained by the architect in his anomaly speech.

Jane 21/10/21:

Don Juan explained that every act performed by sorcerers, especially by the naguals, was either performed as a way to strengthen their link with intent or as a response triggered by the link itself. Sorcerers, and specifically the naguals, therefore had to be actively and permanently on the lookout for manifestations of the spirit. Such manifestations were called gestures of the spirit or, more simply, indications or omens

Omens being signs or messages? Or maybe even synchronicities?      

Laz 21/10/21:

Exactly 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

don Juan said. "The nagual Elias used to tell me that the whole of humanity has moved away from the abstract, although at one time we must have been close to it. It must have been our sustaining force. And then something happened and pulled us away from the abstract. Now we can't get back to it. He used to say that it takes years for an apprentice to be able to go back to the abstract, that is, to know that knowledge and language can exist independent of each other."

So I think this refers to the abstract mental realm mentioned in esoteric teachings.

Laz 21/10/21:

I would agree

Jane 21/10/21:

I told you how trance and alcohol were mentioned in their interactive “operations” as they term it, temporary self induced shifts, they say this is where new knowledge comes from.

“Abstract” definition:- “Existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.” 

This explains how abstraction is required to connect the language to the knowledge? 

Laz 21/10/21:

Yes, analogy, metaphor, parable, these are all connecting the abstract to knowledge of a specific thing.

Jane 21/10/21:

So I would say there is the abstraction of imagination as it works in a child’s mind … Maybe this is what the old seers maintained and so did not lose? 

Laz 21/10/21:

Not sure, abstraction takes time to come in, they are pretty literal when young, it’s like learning about Lady Macbeth and her not being able to get the blood stains off her hands! Its a mental stain, but kids can’t see that.

Laz 21/10/21:

Don did describe them as being just like children. But if abstraction is what is being used by my mind I don’t see it as imagination, per se but rather it is what my mind naturally does for periods of time and it must be what connects me to the energy of intent?

I guess it would be seen as almost mind day dreaming to others but it is actually feels just like a neutral attention or assemblage point to me. As in my consciousness is not grounded but more diffuse. But i think it also has to do with the now once again permanent slowed down brainwaves that maybe also acts as a pull or merge towards that intent? Because I do finally realise the strange fact you pointed out that although I do live in a separate reality I am actually not the one in a trance like state, it is everyone around me. 

Laz 21/10/21:

And boy is it becoming clearer every day! Mass Formation Psychosis 🙁

Jane 21/10/21:

I am also constantly trying to put language and terminology to shit that goes on in my head 😀

Maybe it is due to such abstract thinking I see everything in all spiritual teachings, symbolically! almost like stories, not literal. They are just perception shifts explained. I would say a good example of assimilations coming from the abstract mind is your creation of your Drew novel.

Laz 21/10/21:

Hmmm, I had not considered this. My intent was to modernise two compatible philosophies, and build in a story based on my experiences. However I had to abstract some parts of the philosophies to fit, so that would be the assimilations 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

I also see everything multidimensionally from all assemblage points of attention and it does not always come with language. Sometimes just via light waves. Then I make attempts to communicate and explain these things as things in a way that may be familiar so it can be understood what I am saying. Hence the vital need for a mutual fund of knowledge and terminology so as to be on the same page, to bounce around with. And why agreed definitions and cross clarification is so important. But I find human language in itself really can be a problem in communication. Hence, my earlier example of how easily we can be subjected to misperceptions. Misunderstandings. But I think I do get the overall philosophy of these teachings by Don and Carlos now. 

These mind qualities and mental abilities I did not fully recognise in the terminology used like dreaming, intent, stalking, seeing etc. nor in the ways they were explained. It all seemed too far fetched and literal for me, but all such teachings do. Same story, played out in a different format but it does make sense that it has to be conjured up in our mind in order for the “sorcerers mind magic” to do its work 🙂

I have to translate by using symbology, analogy, concepts and metaphors as this is the way my mind seems to work so maybe that is as a result of abstraction? 

Laz 21/10/21:

I’ve heard before, although don’t know where from, that if you cannot give an abstract example to help explain an idea, then you have not understood it yourself 🙂 I think abstraction is a very human characteristic.

Jane 21/10/21:

I see the goal of teachings as a mind set to be attained by comprehending what is being demonstrated, taught, explained and shown.

For all the drama to spiritual teachings all they are is simply a human potential psychological capacity or mental capability. But it took some time in order for me to understand these by my processing techniques before I was able to fully recognise them as having been achieved in myself, by my own mind. You know as in … I have got that t-shirt  🙂

Laz 21/10/21:

There you go 🙂 I think we are in agreement

Jane 21/10/21:

These teachings have really helped me to understand exactly what shamanics is, and how I have been utilising the disciplines and practices.   

"Then dreamers move their assemblage point erratically and lose their minds."     

"Well, your assemblage point moves almost erratically, because your sexual energy is not in balance."       

"What are you trying to tell me, don Juan?" I asked because I felt that the subject of dreaming had not been a natural drift in the conversation.         

"You are a dreamer" he said. "If you're not careful with your sexual energy, you might as well get used to the idea of erratic shifts of your assemblage point. A moment ago you were bewildered by your reactions. Well, your assemblage point moves almost erratically, because your sexual energy is not in balance."          

I made a stupid and inappropriate comment about the sex life of adult males. 

"Our sexual energy is what governs dreaming," he explained. "The nagual Elias taught me - and I taught you - that you either make love with your sexual energy or you dream with it. There is no other way. The reason I mention it at all is because you are having great difficulty shifting your assemblage point to grasp our last topic: the abstract.        

"The same thing happened to me," don Juan went on. "It was only when my sexual energy was freed from the world that everything fit into place. That is the rule for dreamers"    

Can you make sense of this? Does it mean an individuals own male/female sexual energy not in balance?

Laz 21/10/21:

Here we have a connection to Tantra and the sublimation of sexual energy, to save it and use it differently. To send it up the spine maybe 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

Although that does not seem to have been an issue or contemplation for Don. Or does it refer to their Kundalini sex/Eros/life force as in the carnal mind and 3d matrix level that is not balanced? Kundalini. I know we all have kundalini, it is the base energy life/sex force/Eros that all humans have and that is Kundalini energy but I would say with a small k. Basic instincts and lower activated chakras for lower realm activities. But I think it has different applications, strengths and frequencies in creative manifestation, depending on the assemblage point of attention or maybe intention, but I am thinking about when Kundalini with a capital K, is activated in the awakened and can be put to a higher use of creation as it flows through the realms of the mind in the higher mental, intellect, abstract, spiritual and divine realms. On a more cosmic level.

Is using it for those purposes what Don meant by his sexual energy being freed from the world? 

Laz 21/10/21:

I would say so 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

This is how the esoteric teaching explains to be the way to gain new knowledge. So it seems there is a correlation to the same teaching here, with Don Juan’s, but it does not mention K energy directly. But then neither does the esoterics. So in both disciplines it is taught that knowledge is acquired by “intent” Is intent Like a purpose?

Question :  do you agree with the concept that I see as little k and big K, and can you put it any differently? 

Laz 21/10/21:

I’m not sure I really understand the difference and I’ve not divided it like that in my own thinking. I don’t even subscribe to Yoga view of the stages of Kundalini rising through chakras as my experience was of it happening all at once, toe to top 🙂

Jane 21/10/21:

And is it in any way similar to what you explained as there is a difference between kundalini energy as it works through the Ida/Pingula route and when it involves the Sushumna?

Laz 21/10/21:

Here I’ve taken the literal word of the books, and don’t know any more. I’d love to know for example why there are two Nadis either side of Sushumna, and while the literature say a rising of the Kundalini shakti through either of those causes problems, I don’t know what issues can be ascribed to which Nadi. Not sure it has been documented.
In conclusion I’ve always felt that as the Castaneda books go on, they get less coherent, seem to contradict earlier writing, and just seem to bloom into incomprehensible ideas. So you are in that territory now.

Jane 22/10/21:

Can you please clarify this I can read it more than one way 🙂

Laz 22/10/21:

What I meant to say was you are reading some of the last/latest books now and they move away from the core ideas and concepts into more difficult to grasp ideas. I gave up after reading the art of dreaming and haven’t read the later books. 

Laz 21/10/21:

Don’t even get me started on Tensegrity! 😀

Jane 22/10/21:

Lol. I don’t know what you mean and I had to google the term.

Tensegrity is the modern version of magical passes: movements and positions of body and breath discovered by men and women shamans who lived in Mexico in ancient times, and taught to Carlos Castaneda, Florinda Donner-Grau, Taisha Abelar and Carol Tiggs by their teacher, don Juan Matus, a Yaqui Indian from Sonora, Mexico and Yuma Arizona, and the heir to the lineage of those ancient shamans. 

The word Tensegrity was coined by architect and dreamer R. Buckminster Fuller, and is a combination of tension and integrity, which Carlos Castaneda saw as a perfect description of the driving forces of the magical passes, and of the way of being that don Juan Matus taught him: giving equal attention to all parts of our being, all aspects of our actions with others, all parts of the scene we are in, and how they interrelate.

Sounds to include physical practices, apart from being fully present in our attention I am still not really sure what it means 🙂

Laz 22/10/21:

So it’s kinda what the OA movements were based on, but it’s bonkers stuff. See for yourself:
https://youtu.be/7A8PVXRL26g?t=276[https://youtu.be/7A8PVXRL26g?t=276

Jane 03/11/21

Hope you are OK and over the covid 🙂 You are right in pointing out that these works seem contradictory as they go on but thinking about it, most texts do, I think the confusion here, is all down to a level of terminology of language. I say that truth changes depending on what level a person is on. Sometimes I can find that it is not so much that truth changes but more a case of meanings of words to comprehend that truth changes. 

Laz 03/11/21:

I could maybe accept that he misunderstood the teachings early on, but I’m not aware of him ever offering this as a justification. Also if the new truths are correct then they are not explained with the same clarity as the early ones were, sadly. To me it either smacks of running out of ideas, or not having made enough notes. Depending upon how kind I am feeling towards Carlos!

Jane 04/11/21:

You really do make me laugh out loud 😀     

Jane 03/11/21:

As I see it the level of narrative has maybe changed here between stages from hunter to that of man of knowledge?But the used terminology has not adapted to distinguish that fact. I think the same could be said in the use of terms like will, power and intent. Eg: the term “Will” means something very different depending on where it is originated. self will is on a completely different par to Source will. But comes under the same language term of “will” unless differentiated. 

Laz 03/11/21:

I agree with this statement, and can relate it to how electricity is taught to kids versus how degree level physics teaches it. However both should come with a rational explanation that is clear and can be comprehended. I could explain source will versus self will easily but Castaneda struggles with his concepts.

Jane 04/11/21:

You can say that again. 😀

Jane 03/11/21:

In the same way “Power”, as perceived may be different to a hunter, warrior and a sorcerer than to a man of knowledge.  For example ego driven power is not divine power. Castaneda for beginners. P 106…   

"Over the years, Don Juan had given Castaneda various definitions of sorcery. Those definitions changed with the pace of increasing knowledge" 

I think the term “intent” itself is being used on a level up now but with no distinction of that term made between them.  Ones self intent is very different to divine intent. Intent. As I understood the word and you say as taught on one level has kind of mutated for me and meant something very different here when comparing the different stages. Intent as willpower, as I understand that to be, making a conscious effort to do or not to do does no longer exists to me, it would go completely contrary to my life force energy of go with the Source’s flow. That is all I know 🙂

So it was in that different context that the text makes sense to me when it said that “knowledge comes from intent” …     

He said that in the universe there is an unmeasurable, indescribable force which sorcerers call intent, and that absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link    

sorcerers obtained knowledge directly from intent, sorcerers had gained specific insights into intent; and that they had passed these nuggets of direct knowledge on from generation to generation to the present. He said that the task of      sorcery is to take this seemingly incomprehensible knowledge and make it understandable by the standards of awareness of everyday life      

Because of their extraordinary energy, naguals are intermediaries. Their energy allows them to channel peace,      harmony, laughter, and knowledge directly from the source, from intent, and transmit them to their companion. Naguals are responsible for supplying what sorcerers call "the minimal chance": the awareness of one's connection with intent

From Castaneda for beginners p 98.       

Castaneda was told that another advantage that women have is their receptivity. As receivers they can also receive knowledge       

Women as opposed to men, do not have to be pressed into setting out upon the way of the warrior....women may enter freely into anything. Paradoxically this is supposed to be their greatest weakness

So maybe being in a female vehicle really is very different in that respect from male? 

Laz 03/11/21:

I must disagree on this subject based upon our previous discussions and on the Rebis concept. I think we agree that someone like Don Juan is very “masculine” and fears women, his whole view of the world is tainted by this mindset and builds a wall between the sexes. Carlos similarly is a man of the 60’s and 70’s and as such has chauvinistic views (one could believe he is putting words into Juan’s mouth if all of his books are fiction).

Jane 04/11/21:

Yes sorry I have realised that I got that wrong and you are right to point out this fact! I did find it a bit curious when a man of knowledge should be capable of both. I think that what I was forgetting here and I think we can both agree that neither Don nor Carlos ever actually became a “man of knowledge”! 

Maybe by reading two books simultaneously I am confusing myself by crossing over between Don and Gopi’s work in the same reading session!  Lol. I dunno why but I tend to do that?  I mean one is more limited and part fiction and the other a lived fact 🙂    

Laz 03/11/21:

I see our culture in the 21st century still stereotyping men and women, although there are moves now to break that down with successes and failures being big news. Personally in watching my daughters grow up I really am not seeing a lot of fundamental differences between the sexes, and the ideal personality is still one of compassion, love, and forgiveness, with emotions being overcome by logic and reason, such that one can be brave in their actions. Clearly the most extreme personalities in both sexes are volatile and these should not be celebrated as any kind of achievement.

Jane 03/11/21:

I would say for me in my connections to Source energy “intent” is now one of being open to receive. Where I feel like a neutral mind energy that requires stimulus. 

Laz 03/11/21:

Exactly 🙂

Jane 04/11/21:

Yes I find it a bit strange at times and It is one of those things I think you have to experience to understand. If my mind is not stimulated by something I can really resonate with it stays in neutral. I get my major interest of mind energy stimulus from reading and writing at the moment.   

Jane 03/11/21:

But even if that is the case and knowledge can come from our simple expressions by our discussions/’bouncing off each other’ then I could not say what that knowledge actually is! Lol. 

Laz 03/11/21:

For me knowledge is simply a remembered fact or skill that can be demonstrated later.

Jane 03/11/21:

Maybe it is simply our own personal truth? ….as is! I mean, that is the whole philosophy of your website. 🙂     

“I can relate to the truths changing as we grow. I’m sure we would have considered it absolute truth as a kid that Father Christmas was real!”

Laz 03/11/21:

I would hope that I am not simply pushing my view on the website.

Jane 04/11/21:

No of course not, you aren’t pushing anything. You are telling your honest authentic experience. What did you say to me, a teacher just writes it all down so it is available for others to read 🙂     

Laz 03/11/21:

I don’t think I’ve claimed any of the knowledge there as “my own” I’ve always thought that there is nothing there which is actually new, and is just my learning things which others already know. Someday I may get to the tip of a topic and push it a little bit further than anyone else has! 😀

Jane 03/11/21:

I was thinking more along the lines of our truth changing as adults on our path as we grow/expand. I have believed things to be true until they were no longer true on another level, e.g. I absolutely believed in the concept of things like reincarnation until I transcended it as a belief.

Laz 03/11/21:

For me the jury is still out on the topic of reincarnation. I don’t know enough about it. It’s a nice idea that I kind of see as a metaphor for the period of our lives we actually live through, and can make it either heaven or hell for ourselves.

Jane 03/11/21:

I have had many such kind of truth shifts? As well as perception paradigm shifts. I have believed all sorts of crazy shit! 😀 

Laz 03/11/21:

Maybe I’m pushing a belief of my own here, in that I’ve never really believed anything that is substantially unreal. I tend to be careful in my learning and carving out of those neural pathways.

Jane 04/11/21:

I think maybe that was down to your constitution, traits and personality from childhood. In particular your observer ability. Most people do not have much awareness of what is being programmed in. Some, the easily influenced will believe any old shite! Then there are the brainwashed who have no control over the carving of those pathways.

Laz 03/11/21:

I don’t think that I’ve ever looked back over my website for example and thought, “Oooh I screwed up there, that’s embarrassing!” Certainly I’ve not needed to delete anything along my journey through believing something which I later changed my mind about.

Jane 03/11/21:

"After a lifetime of practice," he continued, "sorcerers, naguals in particular, know if the spirit is inviting them to enter the edifice being flaunted before them. They have learned to discipline their connecting links to intent. So they are always forewarned, always know what the spirit has in store for them."

I cannot say that was true of my own earlier experience. Still not sure about anything now 🙂     

Laz 03/11/21:

Surely there are some things you are confident about? I would not have guessed that you still float about on a sea of insecurity 🙂

Jane 04/11/21:

No I don’t,  lol. I have absolutely no insecurities and every confidence in myself and my abilities – whatever they are. Lol. 

Jane 03/11/21:

"An apprentice is someone who is striving to clear and revive his connecting link with the spirit," he explained. "Once the link is revived, he is no longer an apprentice, but until that time, in order to keep going he needs a fierce purpose, which, of course, he doesn't have. So he allows the nagual to provide the purpose and to do that he has to relinquish his individuality. That's the difficult part."

So is this the switch between autonomous self purpose and that of Source?    

Laz 03/11/21:

Yes, I would say it is 🙂

Jane 03/11/21:

He reminded me of something he had told me often: that volunteers were not welcome in the sorcerers' world, because they already had a purpose of their own, which made it particularly hard for them to relinquish their individuality. If the sorcerers' world demanded ideas and actions contrary to the volunteers' purpose, the volunteers simply refused to change

So the purpose is different for volunteers? Is that because they are rigid and have their own agenda?      

Laz 03/11/21:

I think he means that the term should be used loosely and those claiming to be volunteers may actually be infiltrators who have come to change things for their own ends.

Jane 03/11/21:

This second abstract core could be a story in itself. The story says that after the spirit had manifested itself to that man we have talked about and had gotten no response, the spirit laid a trap for the man. It was a final subterfuge, not because the man was special, but because the incomprehensible chain of events of the spirit made that man available at the very moment that the spirit knocked on the door

Would you say this means someone who is not “listening” and then being put into the right, optimum “place” circumstantially at the right time? Like synchronicity?   

Laz 03/11/21:

No, I think the final enemy is death, and a sorcerer can become so set in their open and available ways that they will accidentally invite death in and be killed to soon as they did not correctly recognise a situation for what it actually was.

Jane 04/11/21:

OK that makes sense.

Laz 03/11/21:

This is something I think a lot about. For example in Covid versus the vaccine, what is the winning move, what is the correct knowledge and which move leads to ones death! It’s like a game of chess and I think the secret is to not get cocky and believe that you are invincible and infallible!

Jane 04/11/21:

Yes I can see how this applied in this case.    

Jane 03/11/21:

He explained that the events unleashed by sorcerers as a result of silent knowledge were so simple and yet so abstract that sorcerers had decided long ago to speak of those events only in symbolic terms

I do not think it was possible to speak of it any other way? 🙂     

"We are going to talk now about the third abstract core," don Juan said. "It is called the trickery of the spirit, or the trickery of the abstract, or stalking oneself, or dusting the link."

Stalking oneself? Is that like self discovery, self taught? Do we trick ourselves? Lol. 

Laz 03/11/21:

Yes, constantly checking ones own thoughts and beliefs against reality. If I have a natural skill it is here in overthinking (Dhyana in yoga) 🙂 One of the trickiest is the battle with ones own ego!

Jane 03/11/21:

We never had external teachers having to use trickery on us, maybe we never required it ?    

Laz 03/11/21:

This is an interesting subject in it’s own right. Does anyone really need it, or are we unusual chemically (I mean we’re clearly unusual by the numbers).

Jane 04/11/21:

Now you mention it it is an interesting subject in its own right. I don’t think many people have succeeded without an external teacher/guru? Come to think of it not many have succeeded with a teacher/guru. Lol. And especially so in the western world. I would say things like trickery probably is required for some in such a complex training from an external master especially in the early stages. 

Laz 04/11/21:

Yes, I’m reminded of the Zen master who points to the moon and asks his student to look. But all the student learns is to also point at the moon, and he never actually looks at the moon himself, and thus does not see. However he can pass on the teaching to others without ever understanding the lesson that was trying to be taught! So some people need to be tricked to snap them out of their compliance; “look at the moon, not at my finger” 😀

Jane 04/11/21:

The only explanation to me in that I did it with no external teacher is that it has to do with that hara spiritual centre in the belly said to provide that self teacher? I can absolutely believe that. I know the centre is real as i can sometimes feel it when it’s active. I think that maybe we are unusual in a lot of ways. 😀

Laz 03/11/21:

I note that my wife is of the personality type where she will not try anything herself without authorised paid for instruction first, where as I chuck myself into it and see if I can work it out. Does this make me a daredevil and stupid, or does it make me intuitive and intelligent? Maybe it is a confidence in ones own abilities, or an abuse of self confidence leading one to think they can do anything?

Jane 03/11/21:

The story says that after knocking on the door of that man we've been talking about, and having no success with him, the spirit used the only means available: trickery. After all, the spirit had resolved previous impasses with trickery. It was obvious that if it wanted to make an impact on this man it had to cajole him. So the spirit began to instruct the man on the mysteries of sorcery

Would you say this is the equivalent of universal intervention? The inner teaching? 

Laz 03/11/21:

Seems to fit 🙂

Jane 03/11/21:

I know you said you have not read any further but this bits funny, Don Juan was being tricked into disguising himself as a women…..     

"I had been reared to despise women, to believe their only function was to take care of men. Putting on women's clothes to me was tantamount to becoming a woman. But my fear of the monster was so intense that I closed my       eyes and put on the damned clothes."    

Don Juan said that since he was still a beardless youth it was not really difficult to pass as a woman. But he felt disgusted with himself, and with all those people, and, above all, with his fate. To end up wearing women's clothes and doing women's chores was more than he could bear

“I felt compelled to interrupt his account once more.       

"But isn't stalking taught in deep, heightened awareness?" I asked.       

"Of course," he replied with a grin. "But you have to understand that for some men wearing women's clothes is the door into heightened awareness. In fact, such means are more effective than pushing the assemblage point, but are very difficult to arrange."

What does this mean? By acting as female one sees life from a different perspective?  And get a taste of experiences in the ways they are perceived as female by others?     

Laz 03/11/21:

Yeah! See bit above about the changing identification of gender in the 21st century 🙂

Jane 03/11/21:

Don Juan laughed and said that he had no idea he was being manipulated into heightened awareness. I had a brief sample of the four moods of stalking. It really didn't change me much, but it gave me a chance to have an inkling of what being a woman was like.

So as part of the stalking technique, could this be seen as a form of shapeshifting?      

Laz 03/11/21:

I’m sure it could be in shamanistic terms 🙂

Jane 03/11/21:

Don Juan continued his account. He said that he told the old man sternly that the masquerade had lasted long enough, the men were making sexual advances. Belisario nonchalantly advised him to be more understanding, because men will be men, and began to weep again, completely baffling don Juan, who found himself furiously defending women. He was so passionate about the plight of women that he scared himself

So lesson learned? Maybe even a touch of karma 😀

Laz 03/11/21:

Definitely 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

"Some sorcerers object to the term stalking," he went on, "but the name came about because it entails surreptitious behavior"

It’s also called the art of stealth, but that term is equally unfortunate. We ourselves, because of our non-militant temperament, call it the art of controlled folly” This reminds me now how my friend used to call me a “creeper”, lol. And I have realised now that what he meant by saying this in his jokey way and why. It is synonymous with this term “stalking”. Because he did not correlate the facts that I had access to his medical records and used to liase with the professional and family people around him so I knew stuff that he was not aware that I knew. Lmao. Bless him. So in this sense I was constantly using the art of stalking for facts and information in my accountable advocacy role.

Being professionally minded and with my god given, albeit jack level skills, 🙂  I could process shit far more effectively and understood a lot more than both he and those I was dealing with could. And I am talking medically, legally like on multiple dimensions. Especially within the current matrix realm of idiocracy. So having spent months trying to fully comprehend Don’s terminology and relate it to myself is actually the only way I can recognise myself as having done this by actual factual experience.

What he terms the man of knowledge pathway as per Castaneda. I fully did the whole holy grail one too. It’s all the same bloody path, but different ways of achieving it both religious ones and non religious ones. What I found is the psychospiritual bit for the non religious ones is simply “ETHICS” Is this yet another myth to add to my list? Lmao. I think the answer to my question is yes! 

There are so many of them that make up that “unified theory of spirituality” 🙂 Each teaching, myth or story is told differently and has it’s own terminology like different languages that have to be understood to even correlate them but eventually one is left with the conclusion as you pointed out that all roads lead to Rome 🙂

So, continuing on with the chapters….

"Anyone who succeeds in moving his assemblage point to a new position is a sorcerer," don Juan continued. "And from that new position, he can do all kinds of good and bad things to his fellow men. Being a sorcerer, therefore, can be like being a cobbler or a baker. The quest of sorcerer seers is to go beyond that stand. And to do that, they need morality and beauty."

So to clarify, with the sorcerer is this moving of his assemblage point the same as moving the attention from the first to the second? The second attention is what Don describes as advanced consciousness, so in that sense then regarding occupational skills, is he saying that any person skilled in something is seen as a sorcerer? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I don’t think it is just anything, clearly he says that one must be able to move your assemblage point. I think the cobbler baker line is comparing them to a “common sorcerer” versus a “sorcerer seer” that can go beyond

Jane 13/12/21:

Does this mean that due to the knowledge of their work they have a potential advantage over the average man who has no respective skills? Even at jack level. So what I am trying to establish is, is this saying that such skills come from the second attention? Or not? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I would say this is clear in the same way that a person with a bachelors degree has an advantage over someone with no GCSEs. I would think yes, they come from the second attention.

Jane 13/12/21:

So does this mean the quest for a sorcerer is to go beyond that stand or temptation of using ones skills to do bad things?  the morality thing? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I would say not, I think there are both light and dark paths open to a sorcerer seer and they may be less moral that you might think.

Jane 13/12/21:

 I guess when you think about it everyone uses a kind of shamanics mind manipulation on each other in some form or another. Both for good and bad.

Laz 13/12/21:

yes most do, I only use it for defence 🙂 I think it is profoundly rude to start a relationship with manipulation, and even worse to continue it for the duration.

Jane 13/12/21:

So would you say that basically what is termed as magic is nothing more than interactions within the mind realms? This being the dark or white arts of human interactions? So in effect, life itself is the game of magic? Played out in an arena, within the Matrix drama called life. So what people perceive as magic is just another part of the whole illusion. The simulation.

Laz 13/12/21:

I mean I have my own definition of magic from my experiences, but one could term the referenced mind realm manipulation “lower magic” maybe!

Life itself is a game of magical occurrences, but I do not mean like the classic wizards and witches sort of magic. From my experiences magic decides the outcomes of events, sometimes paradoxically. It is a hidden loaded dice that can be used to effect the world and its events and even reverse things that seem so set that they are certain. It is not flashy or showy, and it operates invisibly overnight such that one wakes to a new world in the morning.

Jane 15/12/21:

This is something of which I have had a lot of experience and I saw it as the universe conspiring an outcome. Where I can find that things seemingly in motion not to my perceived benefit but I accept and allow without any attempts to alter things, I give it up to the universe with no expectation or interference and do not dwell on the issue, only to find everything changes against all the odds. In my favour. This is what has built up my trust in the surrender of my will. 

Laz 15/12/21:

I think I already have an answer to my later question 🙂

Laz 13/12/21:

I don’t think that it can be controlled for ones own will, but one can certainly resist the enemy’s attempts to do just that for themselves.

It is like an ongoing timeline war between good and evil just beyond our vision and “sourcerers” take sides and either hold the line of good or bad for the universe to pronounce for everyone to see. At the moment in the world “good” is losing but it is far from defeated, this line of the universe is like a tug of war and it goes back and forth. My very writing of this section is an extra tug towards the side of good and I feel that “sourcerers” wax and wane in strength, like someone gaining or losing self confidence.

I know I’ve been out of the game for some time, but feel I’m being called back into it in recent weeks. I can feel the strength in me over the last couple of days and I’ve been literally laughing at the enemy today. My shields are up and their attacks are bouncing off.

Jane 15/12/21:

Wow! That sounds like a really good thing 🙂

Laz 15/12/21:

Weird thing was yesterday I had a really low day! Back to fighting fitness now though 🙂

Laz 13/12/21:

I remember the war in 2013 for that year’s outcome and we are at war again for the outcome of 2021.

If I could recruit you into this battle for the Year End I would very much appreciate your strength in bringing about a good outcome. You may read this and think that this is Laz’s will talking again, and he’s let his non-duality slip again, but I can honestly say that these words are not being pushed by my will, but they are responding to your own request, and I am “channelling” these without really thinking.

10 mins ago I was thinking about icing a gingerbread Christmas tree, this is not me pushing this agenda and it is coming from the source, I had no intention of responding in this way to your email, it is rather spontaneous, and I didn’t know it would go this way. Although the definition of magic has been long overview in being made in our conversations I feel the timing is correct. This thin time in 2021 has been revealed as crucial to the future of humankind and a big swing is possible between the forces of dark and light this Christmas. 

Jane 15/12/21:

So I need some clarification, are you talking about remembering a war in the external world in 2013 here, or the war within? And what war do you refer to in 2021?  

Laz 15/12/21:

Sorry, I am relying on your memory of my own journey. In 2013 I wrote about how I was engaged in a war between good and bad spirits in the coming year. 2014 turned out to be a good year, and those which followed were pretty good all the way to 2020. Things have circled back to 2013 spiritually and I perceive the spiritual war is back on for the year 2022.

Jane 16/12/21:

I do know about and remember your experiences of the spiritual battles you went through in 2013 and with other people but as I read it I was more focused on your inner personal experiences rather than being external spiritual worldly battles. I did not relate it to a war out in the world, but I do now on reflection recall you writing about it being so. I think you explained that what was going on within you being correlated to what was going on with others/humanity in general.

Laz 16/12/21:

So taking the quantum physics idea again here it works well, I was facing personal battles with entities that were after my soul, but I was a foot soldier in an army of good and while my fight was a 1-2-1, it was one of many as part of a world wide war effort against the force of evil. It’s like with fractals too, every small pattern is reflected in the larger pattern at a higher vantage point. 

Jane 16/12/21:

Reading the above when you said it was circling around again I was of the impression you meant for yourself? Like you personally was to repeat that war, but are you saying the spiritual war you refer to this time is purely external and for humanity at large? 

Laz 16/12/21:

The revelation I had back in 2013 was that it is both. The individual cannot be separated from the whole, as I wrote in my Came Back Haunted experience:

I am filled with the notion that I have taken part in the saving this Christmas from the evil that sought to corrupt and control it, and that the war has been won for the Gentiles this year. 2014 will be a year for those who support Jesus and not any of the factions of evil. I wonder if something like this happens every year and I have until now been unaware of its influence in our lives, and of course I have not before now been a part of the fight for the coming year. The whole experience feels archetypal and ancient, and like I have stumbled into a hidden war that has been raging throughout history and yet veiled beneath many layers of secret knowledge.

Jane 15/12/21:

Can you elaborate on this please as I am a bit confused and not sure what you mean by agenda ? What agenda? You would appreciate my strength in bringing about a good outcome in what way?

Laz 15/12/21:

So I am aware that you super accepting of non-duality and act only as a watcher, and I’ve only recently grasped the nature of that which you speak. So I was trying to reassure you that the message I was presenting was not from a dualistic good in me asking. I was pretty much automatic writing at the time and barely conscious of the words I was typing.

Jane 16/12/21:

I knew it was not the will of Laz, as you put it so you did not need to reassure me because I understood that and believed it when you said you was channeling. 

So this has put my mind into overdrive and in deep thought mode but as i do not know what to make of all of this I am just going to throw my thoughts out there 🙂

Laz 15/12/21:

So the agenda I wrote about was of recruitment of your spirit to assist others in this spiritual battle for the coming year. However given what I know about you and what you’ve already written in this email I could have guessed that you would not take sides.

Jane 16/12/21:

You are right, I do not take sides, I cannot, even between the dark and the light. Good/bad. But at this point I am thinking how I used to be in this indifferent, neutral, non interference dimension for many years, my main mantra to live by at that time being…” I accept and allow and do not interfere with another persons life or path. Period!”

But then as you know I was called on to do a mission in the matrix, where I had to do just that! It turned out to be like a mission on steroids of interferences and on countless levels 🙂

I remember how the biggest difficulty for me at first was it being completely counter to my daily promise to source and my surrendered will. I thought to myself that surely an ego is required to put up such a battle in the matrix so how was I doing it, I came up with the theory that maybe i was using a kind of pseudo-ego? 

Laz 16/12/21:

I don’t think it is ego, or even a pseudo-ego. It is action on behalf of the source. All I want this Christmas is to be left alone, but I’m not being left alone. I have little say in this and am certainly not desiring sleepless nights and tortuous experiences but by way of need and to quote Liam Neeson:

“what I do have are a very particular set of skills” 

Laz 16/12/21:

So can you clarify what realms you are referring to here when you say that you are not being left alone and have little say in it? Do you mean in the physical reality sense or the psychospiritual sense? If it is the latter can you explain more? 

Laz 17/12/21:

I’m afraid I’m not up on all that realm knowledge, I do not perceive anything beyond 1 spiritual level of Kundalini.

Jane 16/12/21:

Liam Neeson? I had to Google him, he is an actor. Because we do not share a mutual fund of information and knowledge of films I am not familiar with some of your references. I feel as if I am totally out of touch in that sense since I have not watched films for 20 years. But regardless of that fact, I have no doubt that you do have a very particular set of skills 🙂 

Jane 16/12/21

Now I am thinking that maybe it wasn’t that at all but rather it had something to do with this will and intent thing we are talking about? 

Laz 16/12/21:

Yes, more crossover from Castaneda 🙂 The Intent is a connection to the source that plugs you in (perhaps from the navel/hara) to the other end and provides a path/journey/mission. Then there is the Will, which is the signal to act on behalf of the source. If you don’t feel it then it is not the right time for you 🙂

Jane 16/12/21:

So I cannot say for certain that my current indifferent position will be permanent now?

Laz 16/12/21:

Good 🙂

Jane 16/12/21:

This is why I say could Kundalini energy will that change in me again? 

Laz 16/12/21:

It will allow you to connect to the source to receive your Will, but it won’t in itself change your path. Remember I consider Kundalini to be largely a communication platform between you and the source.

Jane 16/12/21:

Maybe it could even mean switching assemblage points for temporary periods of time in the same way you do? 

Laz 16/12/21:

My assemblage points move all the time between 1st, 2nd, & 3rd attention, it’s like moods!

Jane 16/12/21:

When you say it is like moods do you mean how it feels in mood to you? Or that others perceive it as you being in different moods? 

Laz 17/12/21:

No not in feeling, but simply in the way moods come and go.

Jane 17/12/21:

Yes I know what you mean 🙂

jane 16/12/21:

I know that I can come across as if I am not here, like I am off with the fairies so to speak 😀 But fortunately I spend the great majority of my time alone anyway in my default setting. 

Laz 15/12/21:

Maybe you are the Oracle to my Neo!

Jane 16/12/21:

Maybe? So tell me what do you see as being your role in this assistance in this spiritual call to battle for the next year? 

Laz 16/12/21:

A foot soldier

Jane 16/12/21:

How did you see my role? Did you even see a role for me?

Laz 16/12/21:

I haven’t personally, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one. I am just a messenger, but I have a vision if you like: Whereas before the call for my salvation was personal, now it is global, and it is mirroring the pattern of evil. So whereas in 1933 it was evil taking over one country, now it is a global evil taking over many countries. 

Jane 15/12/21:

You will always have my support in any way I can give it 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

I see this as having the upper hand in knowledge in a specific field with the potential to use that to their own advantage. We see that play out a lot in humanity. I think your website entry on the child catcher magician explains that  🙂

Again impeccability is the required factor here. As you say…. only for defence 🙂 I think I have been getting confused by language terms again? When Don says this second attention is “advanced consciousness”, as per the beginners guide, then the term “advanced” does not necessarily mean of a better quality? As in a more highly evolved advanced as I was understanding this term to mean? 

I was wondering about the inconceivable possibility of living permanently in heightened awareness. I asked myself what would the survival value be? Would one be able to assess situations better? Be quicker than the average man, or perhaps more intelligent?

"To answer your question," he said, "there is no survival value in heightened awareness; otherwise the whole human race would be there. They are safe from that, though, because it's so hard to get into it. There is always, however, the remote possibility that an average man might enter into such a state. If he does, he ordinarily succeeds in confusing himself, sometimes irreparably."

I understand why it could be perceived as being inconceivable but I am not sure that living in a permanent state of heightened awareness is of no survival value? And surely it depends on the height? 😀 what dimension one resides in. 

Laz 13/12/21:

I was just there, but now I am not, so I know it comes and goes. However as to it’s survival value, I’m not really sure. I’m sure staying there all the time would lead to ones own demise as you wouldn’t look after yourself properly in the Matrix world. 

Jane 15/12/21:

This is true and why I appreciate so much those who do take care of my welfare. You see Laz i do live in that place permanently in my psyche. That is what I term my own realm/dimension that I returned to but not at the useless vegetable level I was before this time thank god! That is why I really have no will at all I am a neutral energy being that requires stimulus in order to do the will of the source. Whatever intent or will that is needed I don’t think it needs to come from me!  Maybe it has to come from you? You said you got your will back. Not that it matters because I know that ultimately Source is in control of everything 🙂 

Laz 15/12/21:

Do you “feel” that anything has changed in you since you read my call to action? If not, then I guess your role is simply that of a watcher

Jane 16/12/21:

Well I have certainly been more actively stimulated into contemplating exactly what was being requesting of me to do? Trying to make sense of what use I could possibly be and in what role ?

And especially as you said it was my request? 

Then completely spontaneous and synchronised I heard two songs.

Listening to them I got a lot of energy, full on surges in my bodies/realms, it felt like the shamanics thing I used to do to certain songs years ago, It was an intense experience but I am not sure what it meant? 

To be honest I am still processing and as I say I am not quite sure of what to make of all of this? 

Laz 16/12/21:

That Leon Jackson song is powerful!

Jane 13/12/21:

I guess when it comes to the basic survival of physical realm matrix living it is not much of an advantage if he is referring to that fully transcended vegetable zombie state as being of no survival value? If so then I agree that one is of no real use to others in that state 🙁

Laz 13/12/21:

There you go 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

I would say that one of the advantages of a heightened awareness is that as stated one can assess situations better because a bigger picture is seen with an expanded perspective, detached and from an unbiased and neutral standpoint. 

Laz 13/12/21:

Yes for sure, but it is a tool periodically to use not a place to live in 🙂

Jane 15/12/21:

Oops, so maybe that is where I went wrong?  🙂 Are you suggesting you think my current indifferent neutral position needs to or will change? Or alternatively like I said can Kundalini will me to will? Lol. Seriously I am that confused about this will and intent. 

Laz 15/12/21:

At this point, I don’t know. 

Jane 13/12/21:

There was still another piece of knowledge that came to me that day without any coaching: that the natural knowledge of intent was available to anyone, but the command of it belonged to those who probed it

Yes I agree all knowledge is available to everyone, it is dependent on their level of consciousness and receiving equipment as well as determined perseverance as to whether they are capable of probing for it? 

I was terribly tired by this time, and doubtlessly as a result of that, my Catholic upbringing came to bear heavily on my reactions. For a moment I believed that intent was God. I said as much to don Juan, Vicente and Silvio Manuel. They laughed. Vicente, still in his professorial tone, said that it could not possibly be God, because intent was a force that could not be described, much less represented" 

Gosh it gets confusing, I mean I would say that intent in itself is not god but why would intent not be from a divine source?

Laz 13/12/21:

Spirituality is getting crossed over here, as you have Carlos with his Catholicism and Juan with his Yaqui philosophy, and the two do not mesh nicely as they are jigsaw pieces from different puzzles.

Jane 15/12/21:

Yes, sorry if I keep going over old ground, as ever that always makes sense when you point it out 🙂

Laz 13/12/21:

Everyone knows that in Christianity God is a old white dude with a beard who throws thunderbolts from the clouds. That idea is not compatible with Intent from the Yaqui philosophy. Intent is far more like quantum mechanics than Christianity, if you think above with my description of the tug rope, that could be intent and cleansing it is moving it through the force of ones will towards good outcomes, rather than bad ones.

Cleaning one spot “over here” may effect a change in the universe “over there” and thus the reality we perceive in the Matrix world will change. There is no Christian God here.

Jane 13/12/21:

I believe that divine intent comes from the will of god/source. Or is Don and Co referring to the Catholic beliefs of what they perceive a religious god here? 

To me I believe any self intent originates from an ego, be that light or dark but as already discussed when the ego is transcended that intent is from a very different source.

Laz 13/12/21:

Yes. Ali’s belief that her actions in the Matrix world with respect to Covid have maybe been wrong. She’s been wondering around this evening asking me, her mother on the phone, and her sister what it will take for this all to end and go back to normal. I think her assemblage point is beginning to move and she is starting to realise that capitulation to all that is transpiring is not going to make it stop.

Jane 15/12/21:

I think this is perfectly understandable in such a longstanding and evolving situation, where new information is constantly being thrown into the mix and often contradictory. I have thought about how different it would be for me if I was still out in the world working in the NHS. It is certainly a different world to the one I left 20 years ago. One in which I no longer belong. I think this whole pandemic has caused so many underlying psychological issues for people purely down to how it has been managed or rather mismanaged by the idiocracy. It is a strange situation that I am in where the physical realm world around me is of no relevance unless I chose to look at it. I went outside the house door yesterday just a few feet away and walking on the ground felt so weird, taking tentative steps, the ground looked uneven underfoot, like I was walking on the moon! It is like an alien landscape to me. I just don’t live in the matrix world outside my window. 

Jane 13/12/21:

I see it more as a neutrality that is open to receive? 

Laz 13/12/21:

Yes, but there is the aspect of probing Intent as we have seen from ones Will. I have clearly been waiting for my Will and it has arrived in the past week.

Jane 15/12/21:

I am pleased to hear that your will has arrived for you and I am sorry if I sound a bit dim on the subject of will and intent but it is because I am a fully surrendered being with no intent or will that I am aware of? I have tried so hard to locate it but I just cannot. I live by a flow that is the will of source more like autopilot. I  think it could have something to do with my brainwaves being so slow? Maybe it’s because I am unplugged from the matrix again? I dunno? So if something has been set off as you say it is by the will of source, surely? But I am confused because you say you are responding to my request?

Laz 15/12/21:

So I need to show the difference between the use of terms, I’ve been using personal terms and those of Castaneda which is confusing as they are the same but have different meanings. I did capitalise those of Carlos but maybe that wasn’t enough.

There are two wills and two Intents. I have the regular everyday language for speech and writing which are personal to me these are will and intent, then there are the reserved word versions of Castaneda will and intent in red. I hate that this is the case and wish he’d come up with some new words! So I’ll try and rewrite my statements in this way:

I don’t think that it can be controlled for ones own will, but one can certainly resist the enemy’s attempts to do just that for themselves.

You may read this and think that this is Laz’s will talking again, and he’s let his non-duality slip again, but I can honestly say that these words are not being pushed by my will, but they are responding to your own request  

That idea is not compatible with Intent from the Yaqui philosophy. Intent is far more like quantum mechanics than Christianity, if you think above with my description of the tug rope, that could be Intent and cleansing it is moving it through the force of ones will towards good outcomes, rather than bad ones. Cleaning one spot “over here” may effect a change in the universe “over there” and thus the reality we perceive in the Matrix world will change. There is no Christian God here!

Yes, but there is the aspect of probing Intent as we have seen from ones Will. I have clearly been waiting for my Will and it has arrived in the past week.  

Do you see the difference?

Jane 16/12/21:

I think I can now see the difference in the two types of will and intent 🙂 As you said it is non personal and that was where I was getting confused in the definition of the terms as I understood them. I find the ambiguous nature of language complicates these things at times. The download method via the language of light overcomes this although it is still reliant on the perceptions of the receiver.

From an energy analogy perspective then, would you say that the difference in will and intent as discussed is one of vibratory frequencies? 

Laz 16/12/21:

I’m nervous to answer as this is again mixing philosophies, but I think not. I described my view of will and intent above, but for vibrations I see these as communication between “souls” for want of a better term. They are how you read the spirits messages and know who you are talking with.

Jane 16/12/21:

You really do not need to feel nervous about anything you say to me in our communications 🙂

Laz 17/12/21:

it’s not nerves about you or how you might react, just that I am not really sure and I’m worried about getting it wrong, and corrupting one or other of the philosophies for you.

Jane 16/12/21:

I think that because one of my ways of perceiving is that all is energy/vibrations/frequencies, be that words, thoughts, emotions, actions etc. So on one level I tend to reduce everything down to this philosophical point of view in my mind. So that is why I was perceiving these different kinds of will and intent in this same manner 🙂 

Jane 13/12/21:

Whether that perception will change at any stage for me I am unsure? How does Kundalini energy fit in to this? Is it the force referred to that could not be described? Can Kundalini will us to will? Lmao. Getting more confusing now 😀 

Laz 13/12/21:

Your questions are the deep ones today 🙂 Kundalini for me is about communication, and I’ve been getting surges as I write the above. It is not part of Yaqui philosophy but as you know there are a lot of similarities. It probably aligns with Will the best, as one waits for ages between Kundalini events, one waits for ones Will in the same way. When Kundalini Shakti is felt to rise it could be seen to be the alignment with Intent occurring. From the Beginners book there is this passage on p142: 

"Intention is also a prowess that can be acquired. Given the knowledge that there are emanations on a large scale, as well as the emanations within the luminous seed, and that both are aligned in the act of perceiving, the new seers developed techniques to maintain that alignment. The energy that surges up from this conjunction is known as the Will. it is a detonator. It is impersonal. It cannot de defused. It makes us carry ourselves according to that explosion which we have ourselves set off. The Will is responsible for our view of the everyday world and for our vision of the point of leverage."

I certainly carrying myself differently today 😀

Jane 15/12/21:

Ok so I have a curiosity…Castaneda does not reference chakras but he does explain the threads that connect people at the belly. I told you that my hara line (reiki concept) was activated at the spiritual vibratory centre at the belly since June when I got back to my own realm. It is like contractions the body has when electrodes are applied to a muscle, I have been experiencing this energy at the times you pick up my emails, when you read them and whilst you are replying to them. It is not something I can control and this is obviously linked to communication but I am unsure if this is kundalini energy? It is still a mystery to me. I have tried to work out how your mind being triggered by emails and this reaction works energetically as a connection but I honestly don’t know? 🙂

Laz 15/12/21:

It could be, I’m sorry to report that i don’t get the same thing 🙁

Jane 13/12/21:

And then I understood not only why heightened awareness was the portal of intent, but I also understood what intent was. And, above all, I understood that that knowledge could not be turned into words. That knowledge was there for everyone. It was there to be felt, to be used, but not to be explained. One could come into it by changing levels of awareness, therefore, heightened awareness was an entrance. But even the entrance could not be explained. One could only make use of it

So is the reason he cannot put it into words because he actually doesn’t understand it? Or is it because it is truly ineffable? I used to think it all ineffable but that was because I couldn’t discuss anything or put things into words, and you are right in saying if you cannot put an analogy to something you do not understand it. But there is a whole other dimension involved in such explanations that requires things like conceptual, metaphorical and symbolic thinking and only by the activation and merging this abstract part of the mind can explanations that make sense be made. 

Laz 13/12/21:

I think that this is like that rule from Yoga? (my memory fails me now) where the truth can be written down without having a negative effect but should it be spoken aloud it would break the “spell”. This may run at odds with the Yaqui thinking, but I hope you catch my drift 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

According to the light shall set you free …p 80. 

Mind energy is the God force that surrounds the mental body, the highest form of communication that can be transmitted to the mental body comes in the form of symbols

So this would explain why the abstract realm is so vital as it seems that religious teachings, mythological stories and all such quests are by their nature symbolic and as such only by esoteric knowledge and abstract thought can they be comprehended. The Rebis image being a good example. Even the parables being multidimensional in this sense, with the one level of understanding for the masses and another for the disciples, e.g. with the sowing of seeds parable and the kind of ground they fall on being basic agricultural for the lower but relating to the seeds as they are sown in the mind realm psyche for the higher. I know that I sound to be obsessed with symbology but that was a huge part of my path  🙂

Laz 13/12/21:

Not at all, they are very important and how much knowledge is hidden. Their symbology will be their downfall! One day I’ll figure out the symbol puzzle in Rosslyn chapel 🙂

Jane 15/12/21:

Yes my understanding of it was that it is the symbolic representation of the human quest but built into a building of bricks and mortar like a puzzle to solve. Much like the Solomon’s temple….  Rosslyn Chapel has been linked to everything from the Knights Templar to the lost ark of the covenant and the Holy Grail.

Jane 13/12/21:

Jung spoke a lot about symbolism including mandalas in his psychology of Kundalini yoga. The entrance I would say comes from a state of mind. Vibrational frequency that allows for entrance. The analogy of the passing through the eye of the needle. So what he is referring to as that to be felt, used but not explained?

Laz 13/12/21:

I think I can feel the Intent of the universe and have felt it tonight, but this seems to be more linked to my previous statement about how some things should not be spoken aloud for it ruins them. Not 100% sure but it “feels” like the right ball park.

Jane 13/12/21:

Could that be source Kundalini? ? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I don’t really know what this means. Can you explain what “source Kundalini” means to you?

Jane 15/12/21:

So as I understand it Kundalini energy can be of different qualities, I know it all basically comes from the source but there is a difference between the basic lower life force energies and the higher vibrational type as explained in the commentary on Gopi’s work this results in the work of the creatives the genius and the mystics and who knows what? 

Maybe it is just my perception but I feel the energy differently under different circumstances. I used to perceive this energy as coming from the planetary sun/god until I recognised it as coming from the great central sun like it felt more direct with no step down. When it is raised shamanically it feels more like a battery. Then different again when my head just lights up usually at night. Then there is the direct strike that comes out of nowhere when I am least expecting it. That I call direct from source. But whatever I do, I know with confidence it is ultimately by the will of the source. 

Laz 15/12/21:

That’s interesting I had not considered simply existing to be involved with Kundalini energy at all.

Jane 13/12/21:

Or rather maybe he is referring to the quest or search for it ? Rather like is the term the holy grail an energy, the quest?, the journey?,  the outcome goal? or maybe a combination of them all? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I’m sorry to say I’m getting a bit lost in these statements and do not understand what is being communicated! 

Jane 13/12/21:

He asserted that stalking was the beginning, and that before anything could be attempted on the warrior's path, warriors must learn to stalk; next they must learn to intend, and only then could they move their assemblage point at will

Again I think this is all relevant to where a person is on their path and irrelevant once the will of intent is surrendered? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I think you may be mixing the two wills up here. There is the will of the ego from like western psychology, and there is the Yaqui Will, which is very different. I would agree from a western will approach, but disagree from a Yaqui point of view.

Jane 15/12/21:

I do fully get the difference between the two 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

Sorcerers have a rule of thumb: they say that the deeper the assemblage point moves, the greater the feeling that one has knowledge and no words to explain it

I don’t know about you but I can certainly relate to this. For me it felt like an absence of all known terminology. 

Laz 13/12/21:

I don’t know, and I don’t wish to be rude to you, but I’ve never felt like this. I’ve never run out of words to describe things I’ve experienced and thus I may have a “gift” here that others do not maybe, the down side of my situation is that I can’t understand this point of view of things being unexplainable.

Jane 15/12/21:

I don’t know why you would you see this answer to my question as being rude to me? I wouldn’t take offence anyway 🙂 You are right that we cannot understand something we have not experienced.  Yes I think you have many such “gifts” that others do not possess including me 🙂

In my personal case when I say it felt like an absence I think my limitations were caused by my position. I had no idea what was going on and no technology, Google or communication with others. I had only the limits of the books I had purchased to glean information from and a complete lack of terminology known to me at that point to explain, I remember the point after many years in almost silence when I myself noted that my vocabulary had become extremely limited and repetitive. Imagine a thousand piece jigsaw puzzle then throw all the pieces up into the air, I felt at that time that it was ineffable to me. I was like the blind man feeling the elephant until the pieces landed and I could start putting the puzzle together. 

13/12/21:

"The real challenge for those sorcerer seers," don Juan went on, "was finding a system of behavior that was neither petty nor capricious, but that combined the morality and the sense of beauty which differentiates sorcerer seers from plain witches."

Oh that is the difference in sorcerer seers, and how they differ from the plain witches as he calls them. Those without morals? Having studied Wicca, the pagan religion I think it is very misunderstood, especially by those raised in Christian cultures, the white witch way is actually no different to Christianity at it’s core, the basic law being to do no harm. What could be more innocent than that?

Laz 13/12/21:

I agree, and rather fear it is just warring tribes having a pop at each other!

Jane 13/12/21:

Of course there are those who practice the dark side too, as in shamanic practices. In kahuna psychology and religion they class the human as having the three selves, lower self, middle self and higher self and their such law is also to harm no self, meaning our own or the selves of others , as in physically, mentally/psychologically or spiritually. 

"The fourth abstract core is the full brunt of the spirit's descent," he went on. "The fourth abstract core is an act of revelation. The spirit reveals itself to us. Sorcerers describe it as the spirit lying in ambush and then descending on us, its prey. Sorcerers say that the spirit's descent is always shrouded. It happens and yet it seems not to have happened at all."

This sounds much like the Kundalini energy? 

Sorcerers believe that until the very moment of the spirit's descent, any of us could walkaway from the spirit; but not afterwards.

Once it has you in it’s grip it does you! There must come a point on the path where there is no going back although with my own path and it’s addictive qualities I do not think I ever contemplated such a thing. I was well and truly bitten by the bug! 😀

Laz 13/12/21:

Yes, I’ve been questing for like 20 years 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

"Once our chains are cut," don Juan continued, "we are no longer bound by the concerns of the daily world. We are still in the daily world, but we don't belong there anymore. In order to belong we must share the concerns of people, and without chains we can't."

To be in the world but not of the world…..

"Sorcerers are no longer in the world of daily affairs," don Juan went on, "because they are no longer prey to their self-reflection."

Does this mean where the universal law applies that we do unto ourselves what we do unto others being the self reflection here that we are no longer prey to? 

Laz 13/12/21:

Not sure, I rather felt that this was more in the realm of psychology and of self esteem, and acting like a Jedi who cannot be mind controlled.

Jane 13/12/21:

The nagual said that the first requirements of the young man were total immobility and silence. If he did not want his plug to come out, the nagual added, he had to behave as if he had lost his powers of motion and speech

I can definitely relate to having lost the powers of motion and speech 🙂

"When I struck your back, I put in a plug to stop the draining of your life force," the nagual said to the skeptical young actor. 

"Without that restraint, the unavoidable process of your death would continue" 

As I have said I felt that by remaining in the Matrix world my life force was being depleted, obviously due to a self destruction. I could no longer even function, physically or mentally in that situation. This sounds very much like the position I was put into in that had I not been hoisted up to the ceiling as Don put it my life force would have continued to drain. I honestly believe that I had a lot of shit to work through in my mind realms. I do not think that you had fallen as far as I had 🙂

Laz 13/12/21:

No, mine was a very different experience, I can relate to your lack of sleep but I did not have to endure it for as long as you did. I’m also sorry to say that I may not have had so much to work through as you did 🙁

Jane 13/12/21:

"Stay with it, and I will cure you," the nagual said. "Act like the weak, rotten imbecile you are, and you will die. His idea was that in solitude they would attain and cross that threshold" 

The very reason why I had to be taken out of the world in order to be cured of my physical and mental problems. 

Don Juan had stated his belief that the Christian idea of being cast out from the Garden of Eden sounded to him like an allegory for losing our silent knowledge, our knowledge of intent. Sorcery, then, was a going back to the beginning, a return to paradise

So I am a bit confused here, can you explain this please, I was of the impression that the garden of eden innocence was due to having no knowledge? Trusting in god to provide? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I think this is not so much about innocence as dominion, Adam and Eve had dominion over the world and when cast out of Eden this was lost and given instead to Satan. The powers, connection to God, and their peace was lost. It is perhaps this dominion that You and I are clawing back a little bit at a time 🙂

Jane 15/12/21:

That is interesting, you mean by us doing nagualism? Lmao. I don’t think there is such a word? 

Laz 15/12/21:

Yes, if that is not a word, it damn well should be 🙂

Jane 16/12/21:

So can you define what nagualism is? 🙂

Laz 16/12/21:

Love it 🙂 So my definition would be; for an individual to be able to journey to the island of the nagual and to make use of the unfathomable energetic devices there to have a real effect on the world around one, such that it is changed in some inexplicable way. Maybe even in a way that leaves others wondering what happened and they have a lingering memory of how things were, but now are no longer that prior way!

Jane 16/12/21:

Yeah,  this sounds like a description of the shamanic method 🙂

Jane 15/12/21:

Dominion means control, you say over the world but control over what? others in the world? (or the self perception) of the world?

Laz 15/12/21:

Yes, if that is what you wanted 🙂

Jane 16/12/21:

So I do not want to control anyone or anything but I am reminded of my initial written statement to my GP, that my mission was to raise the vibrations of love and truth for humanity, but that was also my messiah complex thing before my 40 day kundalini episode. I honestly believed that I was here to save humanity but then saw that was a phase to be transcended as I knew that it was coming from an ego. I then saw it as a part of that ego testing along with the siddhis that we have to push through. 

But I think we have to let it go during that psychospiritual stage of the process of saving ourselves? I know I had to in order to leave the Matrix. 

Laz 16/12/21:

I would agree that the messiah complex must be let go, but not the acts of raising vibrations, the difference being not in action versus inaction, rather it’s not just you out there and you are part of a tribe doing the same thing 🙂

Jane 16/12/21:

So again I am seeing this as in shamanic mode I have used in the past for example where one’s own physical being takes on the representation of the whole, whereby you feel like you become the planet, then what is done to the self within a self contained holographic unit is done to the all so for example by raising ones own vibrations has the effect of raising the whole. As you say one pixel affects the whole screen. 

Jane 15/12/21:

It is one thing to be in the world but not of the world but quite another to be neither. At the neutral, point of indifference. I told you that the male holds the power but only with the cooperation of the female but I can honestly say that there is no living person that I spiritually trust or respect more as an equal  🙂 

Laz 15/12/21:

Thank you, but I can’t seriously be on the bleeding edge of this subject. There must be others better skilled and versed in it.

Jane 16/12/21:

That may be so but it is not the point. For example being skilled and versed does not necessarily mean one has impeccability. To me, trust and respect are special energies and the most important things in any relationship and cannot be demanded from another they have to be earned over time as a process. It takes a lot for these things to reach a point of being a given and become unconditional, well for me anyway 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

Going back to that innocence/purity of pre incarnation. In this context then, what is that silent knowledge of intent? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I think it is a feeling over a “knowledge”, It is a knowing at a subtle body level, in that there is no nerve endings of the body which are physically attached to the sensation, yet it is still felt. 

Jane 13/12/21:

Also I believe that being cast out is where we incarnate via the split into either a male or female meatbag and mind and the divine marriage is the union within ourselves of the two to become the hermaphrodite, Rebis. 

Laz 13/12/21:

Yes, it is that regaining of something of Eden which was once known.

Jane 13/12/21:

He asserted that all modern-day sorcerers have to struggle fiercely to gain soundness of mind. A nagual has to struggle especially hard because he has more strength, a greater command over the energy fields that determine perception

Yes I think we can both agree here that soundness of mind can be a struggle at times on this path. No more so than on a solitary lone wolf path 🙂

Laz 13/12/21:

Yes.

Jane 13/12/21:

The struggle being harder the more awake and aware we are and the more we learn. In the beginning I often used to think that I was maybe a victim of my own intelligence. Lol. 

"What a strange feeling: to realize that everything we think, everything we say depends on the position of the assemblage point," he remarked. And that was exactly what I had been thinking and laughing about.

"I know that at this moment your assemblage point has shifted," he went on, "and you have understood the secret of our chains. They imprison us, but by keeping us pinned down on our comfortable spot of self-reflection, they defend us from the onslaughts of the unknown."

Yes, I would say it is dependent on our point of perception. I cannot find clarification on the term chains in the beginners guide. Are the chains that defend from the onslaught the plug ins, or what grounds people? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I don’t think this is a reserved word with a different meaning, here he simply means the binds that prevent the assemblage point from moving, and it is connected to the loss of ones shields of innocence which previously protected one.

Jane 13/12/21:

Don Juan said that the nagual Elias had explained to him that what distinguishes normal people is that we share a metaphorical dagger: the concerns of our self-reflection. With this dagger, we cut ourselves and bleed; and the job of our chains of self-reflection is to give us the feeling that we are bleeding together, that we are sharing something wonderful: our humanity. But if we were to examine it, we would discover that we are bleeding alone; that we are not sharing anything; that all we are doing is toying with our manageable, unreal, man-made reflection 

All part of the illusion? 

Laz 13/12/21:

Smells like someone is enjoying victimhood to me! In that there is a lot of that about, and it can even be seen as virtuous to be a victim in our strange times, yet each victim has hurt themselves by seeing things through these eyes and by celebrating it with others. I don’t mean to suggest that people have not been wronged and hurt mentally or physically, but that indulging in it to gain sympathy from others is the bad part, when they should be moving on and regaining the lost strength.

Jane 15/12/21:

It does seem like a strange phenomena going on, that attachment to and revelling in victimhood like some sort of perceived martyrdom. The sympathy and attention seeking as a refusal to let go of the past is very self defeating. 

Jane 13/12/21:

"There is a threshold that once crossed permits no retreat," he said. "Ordinarily, from the moment the spirit knocks, it is years before an apprentice reaches that threshold. Sometimes, though, the threshold is reached almost immediately. My benefactor's case is an example."

I would agree it takes years and am unsure if the threshold can be reached immediately? I mean if this is a myth story then Don’s benefactor did not even exist as a living being? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I don’t know I’m afraid.

Jane 13/12/21:

Don Juan said every sorcerer should have a clear memory of crossing that threshold so he could remind himself of the new state of his perceptual potential. He explained that one did not have to be an apprentice of sorcery to reach this threshold, and that the only difference between an average man and a sorcerer, in such cases, is what each emphasizes

Yes as we have said there are many ways depending on a persons path

A sorcerer emphasizes crossing this threshold and uses the memory of it as a point of reference. An average man does not cross the threshold and does his best to forget all about it

Could this be referring to those in whom kundalini comes a knocking but the door is not opened and the mind just dismisses it as if it never happened?

Laz 13/12/21:

Yes, and it isn’t just Kundalini, but any spiritual stuff, or maybe even paranormal events. People will pretend it didn’t happen!

Jane 13/12/21:

They fail to awaken. Whereas a true seeker cannot dismiss it or let it go, instead becoming somewhat obsessed by it? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I think you know the answer here 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

The abstract cores of the sorcery stories will say nothing to you now. Later - years later, I mean - they may make perfect sense to you.

This is definitely the case. I have done this a lot where something just does not make sense to me yet years later it can be a lightbulb moment of …oh now I get it. Words take on new meaning, I think advanced understanding is a complex path so in itself is also a process and something that has to be built upon from firm foundations of discernment. 

Laz 13/12/21:

Uh huh 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

"It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is hardly any way to talk about intent" he said quickly as he scrutinized me from head to toe. 

"But making this statement doesn't mean anything. It is the reason why sorcerers rely instead on the sorcery stories. And their hope is that someday the abstract cores of the stories will make sense to the listener."

The definition of intent is certainly something that has confused me but as I say I think it changes as a concept depending on where we are? So when I consider that the holy spirit in Christianity is the same as Kundalini I cannot help but compare the two as seen rather differently. These church types that say the holy spirit descends upon them and who act kind of dramatic under the influence seems very different to the kundalini experience that I am familiar with of self or others? 

Laz 13/12/21:

Yes, it is the wise men feeling the elephant. But there are common aspects as I identified between Kundalini and the movement of the spirit 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

Could it be that the transference of energy amongst the congregation in the former is more a form of drama induced autosuggestion? Akin to shamanic theatre?

Laz 13/12/21:

Without a doubt for Christianity, I’ve witnessed it first hand for both the laying on of hands with people falling over, and also the speaking in tongues. It is a theatre for sure which doesn’t exist in Yoga.

Jane 13/12/21:

And the Christian teachings and culture has an influence on their perceptions or expectations? 

I know that when so called miraculous healings take place under such conditions and people are followed up it can be found to be temporary like the energy wears off outside of the arena. Placebo effect maybe? 

Laz 13/12/21:

I don’t know I must admit I see this as fraud.

Jane 13/12/21:

Or maybe these are not cases of true Kundalini energies at all? I mean the irony being in many cases of those who preach and breath fire and brimstone to the congregations warning of the holy “sins” are very often those committing exactly what they preach against.

Laz 13/12/21:

It is sad isn’t it. I feel there is a link here to the dangers of speaking things aloud as mentioned above. I know most cases are people projecting their own narcissistic ways from off of themselves, like with Boris and his corruption statement from a few weeks back, but I do feel that there is a catch here for honest folk who stand up and preach aloud their correct beliefs. It’s like the words are corrupted in the air and come back to haunt the individual.

Jane 15/12/21:

Yes and I am noticing this so much more, when I hear some people say things I immediately think that very thing that it will come back to haunt them and sure enough it does! I see it as a kind of karma. A lot of it is projected from their own subconscious. 

Jane 13/12/21:

It cracks me up when they are exposed for their blatant hypocrisy. But I guess they are only human after all 😀

I watched one on Big Brother once and I wasn’t doubting him, he was a nice guy but did not know quite what to make of it when he would declare the holy spirit descended on him to the point of becoming inebriated by it and at times he did act as if he was pissed 😀

I cannot say that I have heard of these kind of experiences of Eastern kundalini practitioners behaving in these ways?

Laz 13/12/21:

Oh I don’t know, weren’t they in Gopi’s autobiography when he was looking for a teacher and went to all the well known gurus, only to find that they knew nothing of Kundalini?

Jane 13/12/21:

The other thing i wanted to ask you is do you think the level of what is termed “Christ consciousness” is the same as that of “Buddha consciousness” ? David Hawkins suggested that Jesus is the way to salvation, buddha is the way to enlightenment. I can see what he meant but do you think they are on par with each other? Or different levels? I ask because I felt that when I reached the first and high fived my Jesus statue, lol. I kind of took the baton and moved onto a different what I thought was a progressive path? Evolution wise. But I also felt that when I had done the buddha path too so I am not sure?

Laz 13/12/21:

So this has confused me very much and when I check the chart I find that these two are both at the top along with Krishna. Maybe there is some accompanying text that I have not read. However I can relate to your distinction between Christ being saviour of ones soul, but Buddha being the path to enlightenment, and I do not have an issue with these standard bearers. Krishna then represents right action in this trio?

Jane 15/12/21:

Thanks, as my trilogy that would make sense 🙂

Jane 13/12/21:

Now I am thinking that maybe it was not so much more progressive as just the same thing but a different route? I found an interesting bit of trivia….:) The Wachowski siblings, writers of The Matrix film were born male as brothers, Larry and Andy, who are now sisters, Lana and Lilly, both being transgender. This made me curious as to whether their transitional perceptions would have had any relevance or influence in their writing ?

Laz 13/12/21:

Yeah, weird isn’t it! As I understand it, they have recently claimed (falsely I believe) that the whole saga of the Matrix was that of a metaphor for the struggle in coming out as trans. I think this is to attract the woke mob who may not have seen the story, and I do think there will be more of this in the new movie for sure. I also saw an interview with Lana where she said that the only trans character in the first Matrix was that of Switch (which makes sense) her of the line “Not like this!” before collapsing on the floor.

Jane 15/12/21:

Some in this woke brigade are a strange lot, they are supposedly meant to be more awake and progressive yet to me they can come across as militant ideologists who will threaten those who do not agree with their own limited agendas. Some are like frigging Nazis! 😀 they are on both the left and the right now 😀

Laz 15/12/21:

As an Apolitical person I completely agree

Jane 15/12/21:

But as already established advanced as in woke does not necessarily mean of better quality.

Laz 13/12/21:

Have you seen the Wachowski’s TV show Sense8? That had strong Kundalini communication overtones and I enjoyed it very much, and it also had this gender bending narrative but not for the sake of Rebis balanced personalities, rather just switching from one sex to the other.

Jane 15/12/21:

Yes I agree it is nothing to do with Rebis balance of human alchemy. I actually have a great deal of empathy for such people, but I think there is some deep imbalance within these kind of people who cannot accept themselves for who and what they are. Especially when it comes to the gender they are born as. I would imagine that replacing their natural hormones through a human meatbag and brain in such a way must really mess with their heads. 😀