The Second Ring Of Power

Jane 08/09/21:

Well lots of references to the female sourcerer path in this one 🙂

This has always been my biggest curiosity, the difference between males and females? I am not sure what to make of this because I don’t know if this is symbolic or actually distinguishing between the two meatbags and the hormonal differences?         

Laz 08/09/21:

Yeah I’ve always been interested in this. I must admit I think a lot of it is in our culture and not the reality. Like that Female Kundalini book by M I think that the differences are minor between us whether it’s Sorcery or Yoga.

Jane 08/09/21:

"Women are better than men in that sense. They don't have to jump into an abyss. Women have their own ways. They have their own abyss. Women menstruate. The Nagual told me that that was the door for them. During their period they become something else"

"No. The wind moves inside the body of a woman. The Nagual says that that is so because women have wombs. Once it's inside the womb the wind simply picks you up and tells you to do things. The more quiet and relaxed the woman is the better the results. You may say that all of a sudden the woman finds herself doing things that she had no idea how to do".         

"A woman, of course, is much more supple than a man. A woman changes very easily with the power of a sorcerer"       

"The Nagual, since he had no qualms or fear about doing anything, pushed them without mercy so they could find out for themselves that there is a crack in women, a crack that they disguise very well. During their period, no matter how well-made the disguise is, it falls away and women are bare. The Nagual pushed my girls until they were half-dead to open that crack"         

"The Nagual told me that the four winds are women. That is why female warriors seek them. Winds and women are alike. That is also the reason why women are better than men I would say that women learn faster if they cling to their specific wind."

"How can a woman know what her specific wind is?"

"If the woman quiets down and is not talking to herself, her wind will pick her up, just like that." She made a gesture of grabbing           

"She also wanted to jump into the abyss. The Nagual told her that that was useless. He said female warriors have to do things more painful and more difficult than that"           

"A woman, of course, is much more supple than a man. A woman changes very easily with the power of a sorcerer. Especially with the power of a sorcerer like the Nagual. A male apprentice, according to the Nagual, is extremely difficult. For example, you yourself haven't changed as much as la Gorda, and she started her apprenticeship way after you did. A woman is softer and more gentle, and above all a woman is like a gourd; she receives. But somehow a man commands more power. The Nagual never agreed with that, though. He believed that women are unequaled, tops"  

I think this confirms my revelation I told you about regarding power between males and females and the fool proof safety valve I identified.   

"By the time Benigno and Nestor were cured, they were also hooked. Men have to be hooked. Women don't need that. Women go freely into anything. That's their power and at the same time their drawback. Men have to be led and women have to be contained." 

She giggled and said that no doubt she had a lot of maleness in her, for she needed to be led, and that I must have a lot of femaleness in me, for I needed to be contained

So I do not think it is dependent on the gender of a person but rather their disposition and male and female qualities?

Laz 08/09/21:

I agree 🙂

Jane 08/09/21:

I commented that don Juan had never mentioned rolling to me. She said that only women could roll because they had wombs and energy came directly into their wombs; by rolling around they distributed that energy over the rest of their bodies. In order for a man to be energized he had to be on his back, with his knees bent so that the soles of his feet touched each other. His arms had to be extended laterally, with his forearms raised vertically, and the fingers clawed in an upright position.

I would say I definitely used the male technique here of closing circuit. So when I think about this the only real distinguishable female significance in my experiences have been in experiences like feeling the immaculate conception down to the ovulation going on inside my own body in my 40 day thing, sober and another shamanic type experience when I was holding a globe I had in my hands and it became a drama type thing and I ended up flat on my back with the thing between my legs as if I was giving birth to the planet/globe. 😀 

You know, that crazy shit that goes on 😀 I know of one things you had that I would say was clearly male distinguishable, that was the losing of the male genitals thing. It gets confusing as to where things are coming from when don Juan is now being referred to as nagual. Then we have the problem of is it just Don’s own perspective or opinion?          

Laz 08/09/21:

I mean the Yaqui culture seems to be very chauvinistic and they don’t treat women as equals.

Jane 08/09/21:

"What's the meaning of being incomplete? Everyone has told me that you're the only one who can explain that," I said.

"It's a very simple matter," she said. 

"A complete person is one who has never had children."

This is just not resonating properly with me, but I think I get why they say it? I get it in one sense that having kids does make us less self focused, so is that is what is meant by complete? Self centred?  Not complete but closed I would say because to not have had that opposite experience I don’t see how we can become our totality? There is a big difference between a self centred ego and acquiring a centred Self. The event of becoming a parent itself has the effect of expanding our consciousness from a contracted state that no other experience in life can match.        

"I became entangled in a passionate argument not so much with her as with myself. I insisted that their stand on how to regain that alleged completeness was simply preposterous. I told her that she could not possibly argue successfully with me that one had to turn one's back to one's own children in order to pursue the vaguest of all possible goals: to enter into the world of the nagual. I was so thoroughly convinced that I was right that I got carried away and shouted angry words at her. She was not in any way flustered by my outburst. "Not everybody has to do that," she said. 

"Only sorcerers who want to enter into the other world. There are plenty of good sorcerers who see and are incomplete"

I do understand this, and from both perspectives, it is the strangest detachment that is inconceivable to most rational thinking minds, including mine and thank god by then my daughter was no longer a child. I know it was timed that way down to the date. Had I known of these consequences and the risks of not returning I would never have done it but in all honesty I did not have a choice. I would say that It was the whole world I turned my back on, but paradoxically my motive was my deepest feelings of a need to save it! 

I think that is a mentality that gets in our head on this path? I think maybe working nights for 20 years showed me a different aspect of the hive. The night time hive, that is like living in a twilight realm, I loved it but It probably also messed me up as it is not natural long term for a human being to work at night. I don’t know, maybe some hive workers are adapted for that shit? Lol. 

Laz 08/09/21:

I’ve been considering this a lot recently and given my prior feelings on this I can’t help but wonder if there is something to it. I’ve never worked nights, but you’ve got me interested now in this night time mindset 🙂

Jane 08/09/21:

From outside of the Matrix I can now see it from the perspective of having been in a fully plugged in place of a human hive but to me back then I was thriving in and a part of that connective and collective hive, it was my world and then all of a sudden I found myself sacrificing my normal 3d hive world “life” in order to escape it. 

Laz 08/09/21:

That reminds me the trailer for the new Matrix Resurrections movie comes out tomorrow 🙂 Hopefully some nuggets of knowledge will come out of this new movie.

Jane 08/09/21:

Yeah sounds interesting 🙂 cannot wait to see what they have come up with. 

Jane 08/09/21:

Turning my back on it in order to attempt to fulfil my only long standing wish I was holding, that of a deep compassion stemming from my perceived hopelessness as I had come to see it, in a hive of humanity and as such my perceived need to save it. I guess overall I can now see it was one of the yogas for me to learn, that of compassion? 

It is only by reading these Castaneda books and talking to you that has explained things more for me :).. that dimensional switch 8 years ago that was required in order for me to leave the pure nagual and return to the Matrix in mind was horrendous. But in hindsight with your explanation and my now understanding of the alternative, I really do not think I would have wanted to stay there but also I could not tell you what motivated me to come back?   lmao. 

I really don’t think it would be right for anyone to be tricked by another into such a precarious path. It has been a complex ride 🙂 When I experienced my moth to the flame thing I told you it was like when my dad died, it was a very gradual mental process of detaching from everything that was coming from gravity, keeping us here in the physical and mental realms. We very gradually lose awareness of the people around us, we no longer have any concerns about anything, it is so natural that the gravity gently gives way to a magnetic pull from above.

Well it was like that but it was following my 40 day K experience and I was transcending not dying. I had no control over any of it but I do not think people are meant to do what I did. I do not think my path is one to be followed by others. I don’t think it could be because it was not volitional. I see now it could have been bloody suicidal! Lmao. I may never have gotten back, so Just as well I did not know that 🙂 but I had a flow from source all inclusive of a self healer, psycho therapist and inner teacher! 

Laz 08/09/21:

All one could ever need 🙂

Jane 08/09/21:

I know now where that was operating from…the spiritual centre of the hara line. That is where the need for obedience and trust in my higher self satellite GPS signals worked for me  Lol. Plus my innocent role part, that of ignorance/obliviousness to any danger? I would strongly warn that once we fully leave the Matrix we cannot get fully back! We are locked out of that whole realm of consciousness awareness, well it has shut down for me. We are then left useless in the physical Matrix world. Perceived as being no good to man nor beast .. (except maybe as a meatbag, literally as meat for the latter. Lol.)

Not being able to function in the world like me is not the destiny of humanity. The world itself would stop functioning. It would grind to a halt. There would be no interaction. The hive mind couldn’t survive. Lol. But I think I had to escape what you did not get caught up in in the first place! That difference in you we have referred to as a genetic mutation? .lol. would be interesting to know exactly why you are so different. Lol.

In the world but not of the world. In a way I know that I am dead to the world, but still here. I kind of feel now like I am settled, balanced and sitting mid way between the two worlds 🙂   

Laz 08/09/21:

I can related to that feeling 🙂

Jane 08/09/21:

"while a sorcerer who was always complete is a bit off. Like Genaro was a bit off. But the Nagual was balanced because he had been incomplete, like you and me, even more so than you and me"

So it says a sorcerer who has always been complete is a bit off. So the idea of balance is to become incomplete then regain it again for totality? .        

"The world of the nagual is the kingdom of heaven." 

I objected to her religious connotation on principle. I had become accustomed by don Juan never to dwell on that subject. She very calmly explained that she saw no difference in terms of life-style between us and true nuns and priests. She pointed out that not only were true nuns and priests complete as a rule, but they did not even weaken themselves with sexual acts. 

I liked the Nagual for saying that. I will always cheer for the nuns and priests. We are alike. We have given up the world and yet we are in the midst of it. Priests and nuns would make great flying sorcerers if someone would tell them that they can do it.

Yeah, but that is due to the split between Christianity and paganism. People fear what they don’t understand. Christians have been made to be scared to death of it. Lol. In the hidden but found lost gospels there is clear evidence of this pagan aspect as well as female gospel accounts so to me I would say the so called founding fathers threw out the baby with the bath water! 

Laz 08/09/21:

Is that the Apocrypha? 

Jane 08/09/21:

Yes I believe so. Some of the above are among the 50 ancient texts written between the second and the fourth century were discovered in Egypt in 1936. These books came to be known as Gnostics, which means knowledge. Christian Gnostics in the early century represented the early Christians who had a different belief to the other Christians. They believe was that salvation wasn’t reliant on the salvation of Jesus Christ but on our souls learning to free themselves from the material world through the revelation. Besides, the gospel insisted that a unified church was non-necessary and that there was no need for unity in the church. Irenaeus pointed out the tendency of the Gnostics to write so many books, and in collaboration with other leaders, they warned that this information was inaccurate and harmful and should not be taught. 

Jane 08/09/21:

I see this as that partial totality due to a limited perception you mentioned, I don’t think nuns and priests are complete, as in the term I perceive it as being, how can they be without the experiences of a full life? And how can they be by slavishly following their religious dogma? That is why none of them transcend whilst incarnate. I mean I get that it is their individual paths but to me it seems so limiting.

I would have thought that a true totality path is a passage through all of the human stages of life, not one of avoiding them? As you pointed out that kind of innocence is not the same as a person with experienced knowledge.       

Laz 08/09/21:

I agree, the path of the nun or the priest is a swizz, a cheat, a lie. They are missing the point and one sided imbalance clearly has negative effects on their kind such that awful things happen in contradiction to their professed beliefs.

Jane 08/09/21

I once told don Juan, as if I were voicing my own opinion, something I had heard all my life, that the favorite ploy of the Church was to keep us in ignorance. Don Juan had a most serious expression on his face. It was as if my statements had touched a deep fiber in him. I thought immediately of the centuries of exploitation that the Indians had endured

Yep, pretty similar. But I think the church, as with all religions are self limited being completely ignorant in and of itself! I know that the white man robbed the native shaman of their knowledge of things like medicinal plants and then killed them, they did not want natural remedies known, it probably interfered with their big pharma agenda.         

Laz 08/09/21:

Do you subscribe to this idea? 

Jane 08/09/21:

It may not have been intended like that as pharmacy was not such a big business then, but that was the outcome once chemists learned of it. A parallel dimension maybe?

Jane 08/09/21:

"Why was the dome so important?" I asked Nestor.

"Because that's where the Nagual and Genaro are now," he replied.

"And where's that dome?" I asked.

"Somewhere on this earth," he said.

I had to explain to them at great length that it was impossible that a structure of that magnitude could exist on our planet. I said that my vision was more like a dream and domes of that height could exist only in fantasies. They laughed and patted me gently as if they were humoring a child.

"You want to know where Eligio is," Nestor said all of a sudden. 

"Well, he is in the white vaults of that dome with the Nagual and Genaro."

"But that dome was a vision," I protested.

"Then Eligio is in a vision," Nestor said. 

"Remember what Benigno just said to you. The Nagual and Genaro didn't tell you to find that dome and go back to it over and over. If they had, you wouldn't be here. 

"The Nagual told us that our second attention would someday focus on that dome," she said.

"That day we will be all second attention, just like the Nagual and Genaro are" 

Is the dome they are referring to the buddhist spiritual kingdom of shambhala?         

Laz 08/09/21:

I don’t know, sorry.

Jane 08/09/21:

"The Nagual told us that our second attention would someday focus on that dome," she said.

"That day we will be all second attention, just like the Nagual and Genaro are,"

"Where are the Nagual and Genaro?" 

"Now I'll tell you exactly where they are. The Nagual said that you will understand this better than any of us. None of us has ever seen the guardian. None of us has ever been in that yellow sulfur world where he lives. You are the only one among us who has. The Nagual said that he followed you into that world when you focused your second attention on the guardian. He intended to go there with you ,perhaps forever, if you would've been strong enough to pass. It was then that he first found out about the world of those little red bugs. He said that their world was the most beautiful and perfect thing one could imagine." 

"So, when it was time for him and Genaro to leave this world, they gathered all their second attention and focused it on that world. Then the Nagual opened the crack, as you yourself witnessed, and they slipped through it into that world, where they are waiting for us to join them someday. The Nagual and Genaro liked beauty. They went there for their sheer enjoyment."

So I don’t understand this? Does it mean in their own world ? A bugs world? It sounds weird to me to want to be in a bug world of the ecosystem. Or was that their most beautiful and perfect thing they could imagine? People’s perception of their own perfect heaven?        

Laz 08/09/21:

A parallel dimension maybe?

Jane 08/09/21:

"She came closer to me and whispered in my ear that the Nagual had also said that she should never try to take my writing pad away from me because that would be as dangerous as trying to snatch a bone from a hungry dog's mouth"

This made me laugh and wonder wtf would I do?          

Laz 08/09/21:

Yeah right, don’t take away my ability to write!

Jane 08/09/21:

“I had braced myself for dying, but not for disappearing for the rest of my life in full awareness, without anger or disappointment, leaving behind the best of my feelings. I had fully braced myself as in gone through a process of being fully prepared to disappear! 

I believed that my family would not suffer as all traces of me would be erased in mind. That aliens coming to take me  away thing in my 40 day experience 😀     

I mean, shit, how crazy does this stuff sound now?     

Laz 08/09/21:

I could write equally crazy things form my history 🙂

Jane 08/09/21:

I asked her then about her usage of the word "nagual". I said that don Juan had explained the nagual to me as being the indescribable principle, the source of everything.

"Sure," she said smiling. 

"I know what he meant. The nagual is in everything." 

I pointed out to her, a bit scornfully, that one could also say the opposite, that the tonal is in everything. She carefully explained that there was no opposition, that my statement was correct, the tonal was also in everything. She said that the tonal which is in everything could be easily apprehended by our senses, while the nagual which is in everything manifested itself only to the eye of the sorcerer. She added that we could stumble upon the most outlandish sights of the tonal and be scared of them, or awed by them, or be indifferent to them, because all of us could view those sights. A sight of the nagual, on the other hand, needed the specialized senses of a sorcerer in order to be seen at all. And yet, both the tonal and the nagual were present in everything at all times. It was appropriate, therefore, for a sorcerer to say that "looking" consisted in viewing the tonal which is in everything, and "seeing," on the other hand, consisted in viewing the nagual which also is in everything. 

Accordingly, if a warrior observed the world as a human being, he was looking, but if he observed it as a sorcerer, he was "seeing," and what he was "seeing" had to be properly called the nagual" 

The saying god moves in mysterious ways….if you can see it, comes to mind here.     

That floor aided her to reach her attention of the nagual. The lines had power to do that. Each of them helped her gather a piece of that attention. To be incomplete is no handicap to reaching that attention for some warriors. The only thing I can say is that after going to the same dream over and over, we began to feel the lines of the world. They helped us to do what you saw us doing.

"Those dreams are our best, because our attention is complete. In the other dreams that we have, our attention is still shaky." 

La Gorda said that holding the images of dreams was a Toltec art. After years of consuming practice each one of them was able to perform one act in any dream. Lidia could walk on anything, Rosa could dangle from anything, Josefina could hide behind anything and she herself could fly. But they were only beginners, apprentices of the art. They had complete attention for only one activity

I think this is the same practice as in things like intense superhuman feats training. People who do extraordinary feats to the average human will tell you that they have used their one pointed focus to achieve it by using imagination or visualisation over and over until they could “do it in their sleep”. I think they also use muscle memory to recreate their actions, I know we recapitulate in our sleep, even babies process and practice this way.      

Gravity did not seem to have any effect on Lidia, but it did on her long skirt; She had captured my attentiveness at a level I could not imagine

I can relate to this, leaving the Matrix is no longer being subject to the laws of it’s gravitational pull. I experienced this in my physical body and my mind realm. That is in part how I managed to escape the collective of the hive mind that you never got caught up in. It makes sense to me now how I have been going on about the” collective” ( in the 4th dimension) and you have maybe not been understanding me as you had no point of reference or concept of it?      

Laz 08/09/21:

I must admit I don’t understand what that is like! The best I can comprehend is that of peer pressure to conform or be ostracized, like the feathered Jonathan and his skyward tricks!

Jane08/09/21:

That is part of it but it is not all negative there is also the opposite in things like cooperation, collaboration. Hive like groupings . As I say it is a whole grid/web/hive, lol. Whatever one calls it. 

Jane 08/09/21:

"I've told you already what the Nagual told me about attention," she said. 

"We hold the images of the world with our attention. A male sorcerer is very difficult to train because his attention is always closed, focused on something. A female, on the other hand, is always open because most of the time she is not focusing her attention on anything. Especially during her menstrual period. The Nagual told me and then showed me that during that time I could actually let my attention go from the images of the world. If I don't focus my attention on the world, the world collapses."

“How is that done, Gorda?”

"It's very simple. When a woman menstruates she cannot focus her attention. That's the crack the Nagual told me about. Instead of fighting to focus, a woman should let go of the images"

So is the concept they talk of as gazing like the psychics use of crystal ball or water gazing of the tonal or nagual? 

Laz 08/09/21:

I don’t think so, this feels like Stopping the World by giving anything attention.      

Jane 08/09/21:

Would you say processing using theoretical philosophising is a level of mindful gazing? 

Laz 08/09/21:

I don’t quite know the term “mindful gazing” but can imagine that philosophising is something like that 🙂 

Jane 08/09/21:

Would you say that is tonal or nagual? Setting our book club discussions aside 🙂

Laz 08/09/21:

Philosophising is definitely Tonal in nature. As I eluded to above I’m not as balanced as I should be, and I keep reminding myself to stay true to my learning. But humanity seems to be collectively spiralling downward over this Covid pandemic, it’s utter fucking madness and reminds me of like Mayan rituals of sacrifice and of hopelessness in the face of catastrophe.

Jane 08/09/21:

I am really sorry to hear this what kind of pressure do you mean? Can you clarify what you mean by existential. Are you getting stressed over things? Are you talking about the covid situation? Sometimes a problem shared can be a problem halved 🙂 

Jane 08/09/21:

I’m kinda hiding out of it all in the country, and my remote working has just been extended until who knows when? I feel a bit like Obi Wan Kenobi retiring in the desert, while the empire closes in.

Jane 08/09/21:

Yes I guess it is a case of doing your own thing and separating from that. The only thing to do is to rise above it. It has gone beyond idiocracy to me to the point of hilarity when I focus in on it. So I no longer do very often. It really is a waste of energy. I do know it is easier said than done and that I am fortunate not being grounded into it plus I can just lose myself in my own world of reading and writing.

I do observe the goings on across the globe for perspective but then balance it out with watching comedy. I am in a position to chose what to focus my mind on. That then becomes our reality. 

Laz 08/09/21:

I’ve been getting flashes of revelation about the direction we are headed, and if I may elaborate as I’ve not recorded it anywhere.

I think we are headed to a dystopian future, where the biblical mark of the beast is going to be realised through a digital world ID for everyone and everything, those who comply will be slaves to a social credit score and will lose their freedom to think differently from the herd.

Jane 08/09/21:

I think this has always been the case for the masses even prior to digitalisation but as you say it is the digital world being affected now. 

Laz 08/09/21:

Blockchain tech and NFTs will be everywhere, replacing years old copywrite and contract laws, we will police each others behaviour through tattle tailing.

Jane 08/09/21:

Not familiar with the tech part here but again, the sheeple already police each other. People also police themselves. It has been subtle up to now as a way of maintaining order and society. But moving into the tech world I guess that infiltrates so much deeper. 

Laz 08/09/21:

Those who resist will either be put in camps or ghettos or will simply be killed.

Jane 08/09/21:

That sounds a bit extreme, do you really think a “Hitler” could return? I also know that it is possible for that mentality to be transmuted because I did it to myself 🙂

Laz 08/09/21:

My path has always been that of Winston Smith, and I’m okay with that, I will not run or bow or beg to avoid it.

Jane 08/09/21:

I googled Winston and yes I agree  🙂

Laz 080/09/21:

I had this vision that the only logical answer to why the governments are so intent on vaccinating absolutely everyone in spite of scientific evidence to the contrary, is that it is some sort of bio-marker that cannot be removed from a person. The microchip conspiracy seems a little old hat these days and could have always been dug out of your arm or leg or whatever.

Jane 08/09/21:

I see a bigger picture to this and all I can say here is stick to your guns if you do not want to comply. But then put a block on it, try to let it go. Exorcise it from your mind. If you don’t then they still win. From my perspective this whole thing has become something of a rabbit hole issue.   

Laz 08/09/21:

As we populate the entire earth there is nowhere to run to for escape this coming tyranny so there is no point trying to hide online or in the physical world.

Jane 08/09/21:

There is only one place that is out of bounds to this external world. Until they find a way of accessing it we find freedom within. Independent thinking cannot be taken from those who posses it nor can it be infiltrated. I am well aware that for many that world has already been infiltrated by psychological manipulation but there are those who have made themselves immune to that shit, they just don’t waste their energy on it or give it space in their consciousness. It has the affect of lowering the vibrations. 

Laz 08/09/21:

There are two saving graces as far as I can work out. Firstly evil wears a mask and as long as it appears to be reasonable and smiles sweetly, people will not realise, but if that mask slips through anger and if unreasonable treatment follows, then those asleep will wake to it and a resistance can form.

Jane 08/09/21:

I think that is becoming quite evident in many countries around the world.

Laz 08/09/21:

It is my aim to get the “well meaning”, “kind authorities” to bare their teeth at me.

The second saving grace is that of faith, I’ve learnt all about evil strategy and tactics and am certain that miracles can happen when all seems lost.

Jane 08/09/21:

Absolutely! I agree.

Laz 08/09/21:

Their threats and scare tactics are that False Evidence Appearing Real idea, each of them is a scared little child. Been there got the scars from facing up to that mindset over and over!

The only puzzle piece missing for me is if there is a human organisation behind this, try as I might I cannot place one (spectre) and as in my personal awakening journey I feel it is simply the spirit of evil inhabiting weak and scared people and I guess then it doesn’t really matter if they have a name.

Jane 08/09/21:

I agree,  but I say evil will not win out. Fear and suspicion haunts a guilty mind. As you point out it is scared because it has no substance. Much like the difference between truth and falsehood. I don’t think there is a human organisation behind it other than the collective of blind humans.

So I have been thinking about how my friend could not deal with the realisations he was seeing regards the idiocracy and what is going down. He was seeing too much that he did not understand. His response was always to destroy. Lol. 

He wanted to destroy things like Google, Apple, Microsoft and all big tech companies. He was obsessed and so passionate about wiping them off the face of the earth.

I, on the other hand remained indifferent to it all because I am not here to destroy anything. I just needed to understand things in order to transcend things. But yeah that did send him psycho crazy. 

Laz 09/09/21:

I do not wish to destroy anything but can relate, however I am considering leaving those platforms which could come after me for money in the near future 🙂

Jane 09/09/21:

Yep, you know the ins and outs of that shit so just gotta stay one step ahead of their game. Lol