Laz 18/06/21:
I’ve met more than my fair share of people with their house divided against them. It is interesting to me that perhaps if you can convince one of these people to focus on a goal it may help them 🙂
I completely agree with Jordan that the worst decision is not to make any decision 🙂
It’s interesting that Jordan perceives life to be a game, I didn’t expect that of him. Personally I do not see life and relationships as a game to win, and I’ve always told people i save my game playing for the PlayStation!
Now what transformative thing shall I commit myself to next…
Jane 18/06/21:
What I am finding interesting about you is that I am actually thinking that you really are like a different species? Lol. I may be wrong but I don’t think you have ever been fully in the “game”? Like fully immersed as I was. It seems to me that you have maybe been on the periphery of it like always on some level been aware of it and an observer of it? You did not even stray into the level of what is perceived as “sin” but instead kept that purity.
Do you feel that you was ever fully plugged into the Matrix realm?
I have absolutely no desire to win at anything either anymore. I don’t feel the need to be seen as being “right” or justify myself to anyone. I cannot play mind games anymore because my mind is no longer capable of doing so. It just seems stupid to me now especially as I know the biggest mind games we can play are those we play with ourselves. I understand Indecision at this level in the game and it kind of reminds me of Buridans donkey 😀
Laz 18/06/21:
I was always an observer rather than a partaker! I had many friends as a child but generally only one close one at any time. I don’t think I was ever able to ignore the evidence of my eyes and ears for the sake of popularity!
I know what you mean about not needing to be right, I’ll state the truth and if people want to play games with it then it’s on them to learn the hard way. I’m not there to save them from their own stupidity, and I don’t do “I told you so” when reality bites either. I have no time for it.
I know I could play mind games with people, and be better at it than many, I’m sure I could be a great conman, or deceiver for money, but I have no appetite to lie and I know that to be able to avoid being caught in a trap of a morally decrepit I must know how they think, but I choose not to be like them.
You’re no Donkey 🙂 I’m sure you could never get caught in such a trap.
I’m honestly at an impasse with my spiritual life and am waiting for the next thing. It’ll come along in its own time I’m sure 🙂
Jane 21/06/21:
Pages 212 – 214; Jordan gives an example and explanation of how knowledge is moved from the unknown to the known in the psycho-physical realm via the triggering of an unknown “sound”.
I had a thought here how it is a kind of similar thing If you take that to the psycho-spiritual level experiences we had where the unknown sound was a trigger “word” (with yours being “Kundalini”) A moment of the mind from a different realm ?
I explained that this experience to me felt like it was coming from an inner teacher to get your undivided attention when I had the same thing happen with the unknown word “shaman” just somehow dropped, planted into my mind that I had absolutely no idea was even a word. Following such an initial reaction of recognition of what was that?
It then took me on a curiosity mind trail from dictionary definition to a whole process mentally to comprehend it fully into the known. Well at least as far as I can say for sure in consciousness awareness. That is how it came about into my mind as known. Seriously, a biologist who did not predict that by marking a wildebeest in such a way with red paint would make it a walking target? The mind boggles.. Lol.
I have personally never been a big fan of art like Jordan, I never understood the worth value placed on some of it, but then again I was never a very arty or culturally sophisticated person 🙂 As with everything in life to me beauty is an energy that is relative and in the eye of the beholder. Talking of art did you see Banksy’s “parliament”? Now that is good. Lol.
I am finding myself looking forward to starting with my next books/ topic of Castaneda but think we should continue on and finish this book First. No hurry 🙂
Laz 21/06/21:
The Inner Teacher is a great idea, that somehow we each have that mentor in us with the answers we seek, but do not know it! Maybe it was my interior professor that showed me the word Kundalini. I’d like to think it was that over something more mundane like a memory of a book I once read but had forgotten!
Not a fan of poetry myself, and even the much venerated Walt Whitman I found dull. I have a book with all his poems in and couldn’t make it very far in. I forced myself to read the poem that Jordan has an exerpt from “The song of myself” but still don’t get why it’s good or why Walt was supposed to be this great Kundalini poet?
Is the recognition of beauty really the path to the divine? I like the thinking behind framing things in glorious ways, to try and make the content more significant than perhaps it really is. I see this all the time in people and their tales.
Jordan oddly left the idea of sticking your neck out! without finishing it in my opinion, although touched on it again later with the Jesus story. I know from personal experience that the first half is correct, but the latter half he forgot to mention? And that is the benefit of being a maverick and getting culled, but living to tell the tale and moving on to do the same somewhere else, with a sense of growth having been obtained 🙂Not a great chapter or rule in my opinion, and i’m a bit worried by his obsession with communist paintings!
Jane 21/06/21:
Good points. I just thought it was me regarding the crap poetry 🙂
I must admit I found that communist painting thing a bit odd too! I thought, something going on in the subconscious there? Lol.
Laz 21/06/21:
I’m afraid that while I appreciate art in various forms, I don’t get poetry or dance!
Jane 21/06/21:
We have already discussed our writing therapy and the importance of exorcising the ghosts out of the consciousness by fully processing the memories of the past otherwise they lie in the subconscious forever causing problems that we ourselves are unaware of. I remember that I noticed I was using compartmentalisation myself in the early months of my mental anguish but I cleared out all compartments by deprogramming them in my psychodrama experience.
The complexity and fragility of the human mind fascinates me. When you consider that each individual human has their own universe microcosmic consciousness inside their heads each with their own unique perspective and there are nearly 8 billion of them, if we could visually see the holographic collective mind energies in action it would look fantastically crazy.
I used to think Freudian hysteria was a bit obsessive in blaming so many human psychological problems on sex (as in the carnal act) and I did come around to understanding where he was coming from on that carnal level he was referring to, especially with regards to the Victorian era of sexual repression. But from a spiritual level and androgenous perspective now I can only see many such psychological problems as an imbalance of our own inner male and female energies, due to the gender of sex we are at birth. Basically we are androgynous energies of consciousness in our perfect balanced state but by the laws of duality when we incarnate we can only be born as one or the other, a male human being or a female human being so it is basically into a warzone of that great “battle of the sexes” going on between men and women in the archetypes, shared collective consciousness of humanity and playing out in relationships on the planet. As well as mentally within ourselves!
This is as much a part of duality for people as is “good v evil” “dark v light” this is a plug-in of the Matrix unless we transcend into nonduality. I know that when you talk of things like sitting on the fence you are referring to a lower level mind with apathy, no direction, care or concern, non commitment in the world around them. Non duality is very different, I am not living in the matrix world around me but have a total understanding, acceptance and transcendence of all.
I think I refer to what I perceive as the middle path in Buddhism? David Hawkins described it as finding a huge relief and freedom for the mind at no longer having to have an opinion on anything. My question here would be is the Buddhist path one-sided as in experiencing only the light/goodness side of the human being in mind consciousness and then transcendence out of both sides of the polar opposites into that non duality? Isn’t that what Buddhists do? Do they reach nonduality? Is that not the middle path? If so, and the path is all the positive side for some then there must be different archetypes and “ascended masters” for different paths and cultures depending on the shared collective consciousness? Or is it like the child catcher Buddhist monks who don’t experience the desert of the real? Full human life experiences.
Laz 24/06/21:
I don’t believe that non duality and the middle way are the same, sorry. While the middle way deals with balance and avoiding extremes, it can be as mundane as eating too much versus starving oneself. it’s more about reaching enlightenment through moderation rather than extremes. I still don’t understand your non duality position but it feels bigger than this, almost a god like indifference to good versus evil?
Jane 25/06/21:
That is exactly what it is but I couldn’t have explained that. If “god-like indifference” is another way of explaining non duality then yes I agree. But that takes us back to that “god” thing? All I know is that this nonduality is the source energy flow I am now surrendered to 🙂
Jane 24/06/21:
On reflection and relatively speaking my so called “sins” were not that bad but when I awakened I remember how in my moment of judgement my own conscience did not see it that way because in maybe it was a psychodrama mode I felt that great need for salvation from source, like a moment of deep repentance like a desperate need for forgiveness. But that was the exact moment I let go of judgment towards others having experienced the need for it as well as the receiving of that forgiveness. That conscience runs deep and the hardest person to get forgiveness from is ourselves!
I have a curiosity about forgiveness, if someone has never truly “sinned” or had that perceived need for deep salvation and forgiveness for themselves, how do they understand it? Forgiveness in itself implies guilt, it is not even a thing to me anymore, I never need to forgive because there is genuinely no moment of even a perception of judgement.
Laz 24/06/21:
Or if they cannot recognise their actions as sin, they will also struggle with the concept of forgiveness. Even those who profess to understand forgiveness sometimes mistake the forgiving of another, with the forgiving of oneself, which leads to examples like on-lookers wondering how on earth a mother could say she forgives her child’s killer, and they would not realise that it is necessary for the mother’s sanity and ability to move on to forgive.
Jane 24/06/21:
I am well aware that in my own personal life and path I have had to experience both sides of the duality of the matrix realm of good/bad, light/dark act out in my own mind/consciousness and fully assimilate the energies to a point of “neutrality” in mind and comprehension before I then transcended out of both sides of opposites into non duality. I just saw that as another aspect of the androgyny thing.
I did not quite understand if Neo’s merger with agent Smith is the same thing as in the assimilation in to himself of the polar opposites as I experienced? I am not sure if this ties in with the Jedi concept either?
Laz 24/06/21:
I don’t think so, as that ending to the first film was just the destruction of Smith, rather than assimilation. The assimilation does happen to them both, as Christ and anti-Christ, until the 3rd film.
This is covered in Star wars with Rey in the newer films, she is a new breed of Jedi and while they do not utter the term in the movies, the books refer to a Grey Jedi who is both good and evil bound together and balanced. This is only hinted at in the last movie where she has created her own lightsaber and it is a colour never before seen in the stories, a yellow saber. The colour coming from the khyber crystal in the hilt and it takes on the essence of its owner.
Jane 24/06/21:
Sorry if I am not making sense I know my mind is difficult to comprehend, I am still trying to work it out myself and I do find it sometimes quite difficult to even explain 🙁 I am not living in the Matrix world at all again and from my now cosmic perspective of the world there is no emotion attached to it again. This is not the same as being devoid of emotions like a robot but the ability to reason what I see without emotion. As you stated….”From a holographic point of view, the lit stick is ethereal and the meatbag is a projected body from a projector outside of the 3d realm (in which being the hologram may itself contain smaller copies of itself to infinity). My consciousness (my little lit stick) is outside of the projection and not in the hologram, but thinks it exists inside of the hologram and this is the main delusion of associating the material world with the spiritual world.”
Androgyny is non duality, the alchemical perfect merger and balance of both male and female inner energies so that it becomes neither, yet both. It is the literal sense of sexual alchemy. Nothing to do with the carnal level. The spiritual bride and bridegroom, the “divine marriage” within ourselves. The ultimate union. We have to bring the inner battle going on into balance for ourselves regardless which sex/gender we were born as and I honestly don’t know if it is easier for those born as male meatbags or for those born female meatbags or it is equal for both? 🙂
Laz 24/06/21:
I think for whatever reason, it has been easy for me! how was it for you?
Jane 25/06/21:
As I recall…..Complicated! Thankfully I was just a surrendered observer.. . 🙂
Jane 24/06/21:
This hypnosis therapy that Jordan seems to be pretty good at can be very effective if done correctly, research is being done in psychotherapy using drugs and therapy combination such as cannabis or MDMA (ecstacy) in controlled environments treating severe traumatic repression with excellent results. I have never used anything but cannabis myself. I know cannabis therapy works! Mushrooms (cilocybine) treatment followed by micro doses are now being used successfully in some cases of depression. I bet big pharma are not best pleased 🙂
Jordan’s examples seem to be quite extreme in people who were overprotected to an unhealthy degree and not prepared for the desert, life in the Matrix at all! It seems some parents teach stranger danger and others teach that all adults are angels??? It’s like one extreme to the other.
Laz 24/06/21:
Isn’t that weird, poor kids! It’s like setting them up to fail and to fall victim to a predator 🙁
Jane 24/06/21:
I don’t buy the “honour thy father and mother” as a blanket rule, it is relative to the parents you are born to. I respected my mother and now deceased father and understand their era and behaviour but the only “parents” I came to honour is those I found within me 🙂
Laz 24/06/21:
So, it was a bit of a weird “tales of my practice” chapter with some good but already known stuff at the end. So it is a “Meh” from me. Perhaps more useful to someone like my wife who could benefit from the knowledge in there, but she’ll likely never read it 🙁
Certainly the balance of a mind between female and male approaches is and has always been seen as the right way to be in world religions. Jesus was no alpha male and Krishna was openly both sexes!
Reading this reminded me of a documentary I saw recently and in it there was a segment about this transgender person who wanted an operation to become physically female. The doctor asked what made them think they were female, and the person responded that they only had female thoughts. The doctor turned to his assistant and asked her if she only had female thoughts, and she replied that she didn’t know what he meant, she was just herself and didn’t know if her thoughts were male of female.
Jane 25/06/21:
Males and females have been so divided and compartmentalised I think that maybe the gender barrier is now being broken down naturally by evolution in the collective consciousness?. Maybe it is meant to be happening in the mental realm of consciousness but leaking into the physical acting out in reality for some people? But there is a mentality of the pigeonholing of others as well as people pigeonholing themselves.
It is not about being male or female as a bundle of “thoughts” or energies because that is in itself all relative to culture or tradition. We need to just accept ourselves for who and what we are. If you look around the worlds cultures what one sees as feminine another doesn’t and the same with masculine. I was very masculine in my ego energies but that didn’t make me a male.
Laz 24/06/21:
This got me thinking I don’t know how anyone else thinks! It might be like me, or completely different. To take two examples, my mother and father must by their expressions of thought think very differently, but is one set male and the other female? Can thoughts even be sexed? Can I tell if i’m having a male or a female thought? My thoughts tend to be organised and searching, it’s like I have a little detective Columbo in me checking everything going on, but does that make this a male thought? I have no idea 😀
Jane 25/06/21:
We cannot possibly know how anyone else thinks if we don’t share our thoughts and communicate! 🙂
I am talking about the characteristics of thinking being male or female not individual thoughts. If you look at the list on p.122. Male v female can simply be the difference between talking and listening, being cautious and bold, etc. I mean in our society who would have thought that being talkative is a male trait ? Lol. So that applies both ways, it is all relative. In this sense most people are bisexual and fluid in their male and female characteristic energies and that includes their thoughts.
When I was being active in the Matrix I could sometimes literally tell if I was utilising my male or female energies as felt in the physical mind and body. One felt female, calm and nurturing, the other male, riled up into battle like testosterone surges!
Jane 25/06/21:
The thing that struck a huge chord within me with is “yellow”, it is my favourite colour as in most pleasing to my visual eye and hugely symbolic. It had so many special meanings to my friend and I, e.g. In our psychotherapy sessions he would use it as an imaginary colour “marker” in his mind when we found a psychological subconscious root. In conversations we used the mutually agreed trigger word “yellow” that would mean we both immediately stopped talking and instead go into complete silence and switch to just mind connection. So, yeah, that’s a bit weird.
Laz 25/06/21:
Hey, it was nice to read about the significance of yellow for you and your friend, I knew it was important in that movie 🙂
I really can’t tell if my thoughts are either male or female, and I’m not sure I’d want to differentiate. If I’m caring for my daughter in a calm and loving way when she’s hurt her ankle, or if I’m on the back foot and feeling angry due to an argument with Ali, I cannot see the difference to if I’m trying to calmly and kindly explain a complex problem to a male work colleague or if I’m raging at the TV because some idiot immoral politician is f’ing up our lives. It’s just different expressions of emotion.
Jane 25/06/21:
Onwards to chapter 10. I will probably start it later on today 🙂
Laz 25/06/21:
yes me too, the title is intriguing to me!
Laz 26/06/21:
Well that chapter had quite the effect on me! Ali and I had a falling out last week, and the problems we brought up have answers in this chapter. The idea of pushing someone who says “I don’t know” into giving an answer is something we have avoided, also the idea of documenting agreed decisions about household chores is key to our current situation. Funny how synchronicity is always waiting, timing things perfectly. I even got Ali to read the chapter! Here’s hoping it also helps our sex life with open discussion about our wants 🙂
Jane 26/06/21:
Hey that’s fantastic! So good to hear that. I knew this chapter was specifically for you 🙂 As I was reading it I was seeing the big picture form in my mind. I hope it has “triggered” things for both of you 🙂
Jane 02/07/21:
His client case example in Chapter 11 of the extreme way of desensitising reminded me of myself, I lived a very sheltered life as a kid was the youngest, babied and was extremely immature then I started nursing at 17 and had to leave home and live in at the hospital. The strange thing I remember was being so curious, or maybe anxious, about dead bodies and rather than be confronted with one out of my control, the first day there I got one of the porters to take me to the mortuary to see them for myself!
One body in the Police fridge had been there so long I said it looked like a beef burger to me. Lol. Sounds far funnier now 😀 I also pushed the training school to let us watch a post mortem. So I guess I was attempting to desensitise myself.
Laz 04/07/21:
I’ve had a similar experience with horror films over the years and also desensitised myself to death and decay. There really is treasure in that particular dragon that many people fear to even think about, never mind look at!
Jane 02/07/21:
The “Adam and Eve” reference to the blame thing was funny to me because it really did remind me of my friend. He knew on some level that what I was telling him was truth and that I was interpreting and discerning the tree of knowledge not just eating the fruit, so to speak, but what I got from his ego at times was “you made me do it” …. “it’s all your fault” then followed by ..”just kidding ” it became a big joke to us both. We also used the conceptual phrase “been there, done that, got the t shirt” a lot and because I found it so funny I had told him I should send him a t-shirt with the words “jane made me do it” on the front and “it’s all her fault” on the back! It was just like the blame game Jordan explains towards Eve for everything and god for making her do it.
Laz 04/07/21:
That is an awesome idea 🙂
Jane 02/07/21:
I mean I found it funny because I got the symbolic joke! Lol. But again, to me this was a male versus female thing in the archetypes. As Jordan has pointed out in previous chapters, if you believe in the ancient symbolic myth of the original man, it was an hermaphrodite, the Rebis and Adam and Eve is just the male/female dual parts of that one, having been split into two, but still remains within ourself with the potentiality of being united in the spiritual marriage within.
Most of Jordan’s subjective philosophical ideological “rules” are no longer rules to be followed for people once they become a natural way of life. Once discovered and found to be the best way to “be/live” whilst incarnated in the Matrix it becomes the natural order of things for those with a relatively ordered psychological mindset.
Laz 04/07/21:
I completely agree. It was interesting to me about his alternating personalities from Evil Queen to Benevolent Goddess, and from Wise King to Tyrannical Overlord. Those really do play out in the people around me and I always choose to accept them. That’s not to say I lie by omission and fail to address them, but I do what I must to defend truth and then return to peace, without being corrupted by them. I don’t harbour grudges or linger on the idea of revenge, and I’m glad I never have, otherwise I would be a twisted person I’m sure.
Jane 05/07/21:
I must admit with my old ego personality I used to be terrible for that, the need for revenge was deep within me. (as I’ve said, Hitler on steroids. Lol) But in a strange way I found that once I awakened and lost my ego that energy somehow transmuted into a search for justice. Ultimately though that chapter was pretty well known to us both all along I’m sure. This was my thoughts exactly as I was reading it 🙂
Jane 02/07/21:
Like the outgrown commandments that no longer require commanding. Unfortunately it does not seem to be within the abilities for some living in the world plugged into the Matrix today to achieve such a level of balance in conscious mind unless of course they are awakened.
What is on my mind……. I wish i could give you my mind coordinates but I honestly am having difficulty in working out exactly where my head is at right now? Like what dimension am I in? It’s not one of those questions that Google can answer. Lol. It is a strange situation for me because it kind of feels like I have come to the end of the road? or maybe a road ? or something? I don’t know, it’s weird. Maybe I have just reached in consciousness as far as I can go now? But then again, saying that who knows what source wills? I have absolutely no idea 🙂
Laz 04/07/21:
Go with the source’s flow, and see where it takes you 🙂
I found it intriguing how Jordan defined the liar’s “structure” that they think will endure as the truth, and through the cleverness of their deceit, and the power of their will. But inevitably it crumbles and falls once the truth is out. It was a interesting insight into the mind of a dishonest person that I didn’t know about. Reminds me of the Covid to Marxism crap going on.
Jane 05/07/21:
That’s because you have never been that kind of person 🙂
I believe that truth will always trump falsehood, no matter what deceit is used or how long it may lay unknown. To me it is all in the energy frequencies, lies are built on unstable foundations making it inevitable that they can not stand the test of time as dose truth so as you say they ultimately will crumble.
Laz 04/07/21:
Ultimately though that chapter was pretty well known to us both all along I’m sure. Although I’m surprised he didn’t delve into the mind of a truth teller who knows good and does brave things, as there is an addiction there too. I know I have felt it, to be the only one in the room who speaks the truth to a boss for example, who tells them how things really are without ass licking and groveling. That act has a drug like quality too, and could ultimately be detrimental to the individual on many levels. I think sometimes it is wiser and harder to say nothing!
Jane 05/07/21:
I absolutely agree with you, i think a sense of pride and even arrogance can come in here to an addictive degree, if we are not careful. It then becomes an incessant need to be right at all costs. Like you say it can be the hardest thing to do but comes with wisdom to know when to stay silent. I just keep quiet smile inwardly and then the line of a song goes through my mind…..”you say it best when you say nothing at all” 🙂 David Hawkins explained how he experienced that his higher truth was spoken with a kind of “authority” behind the words, I think that comes from a knowing that what you say is right as opposed to an egoic “authority” that just thinks its right. It is a very different energy. I guess that is because it comes from a place of wisdom. By the way, I had not fully realised just how long you have been working at your path. On the mental stuff. The earliest entry I found was 2001? Were you 25 then? 2001 is when my own crash happened. It seems that for the past two long decades, we have had something running parallel in common…..Source direction! So you had been at this for a very long time prior to your 2013 experience. So do you feel the work you put in was a kind of preparation for that?
Laz 05/07/21:
Without a doubt it helped me see through the experience and assisted in my “getting better” in the 3d world 🙂
Jane 05/07/21:
Did you know that you was on a specific path when you started your website? I love that you term about it’s a mind dump!
Laz 05/07/21:
So at the time I wasn’t consciously aware of where it would take me, perhaps subconsciously! I just wanted to try and figure out this world and my place in it.
Jane 05/07/21:
Paths are a process of consciousness evolving, do you ever look back and see any mind changes along the way as you progressed?
I found it really interesting that apart from things like religious or cultural beliefs that I lost along the way the basics of what I wrote has stood the test of time in that I find it as true today as I did when I wrote it all that time ago, as seems to be the case with your own work.
Laz 05/07/21:
Yes, but obviously i’ve not gone back to look for inconsistencies. The great thing about the truth is it is immutable 🙂
Jane 05/07/21:
I also noticed in the early days that I had different style of writing when it was my higher self “speaking”. My writing has never been what you call tidy but I would produce these really neat pieces of work. Almost like I didn’t write it. It was really bizarre.
It’s funny how you did digitally what I was doing on paper, my diaries were like my blogs. But I must admit not as elegantly written as yours. But that is your specialty 🙂
Laz 05/07/21:
I’m not sure about that, i’ve had lots of practice, but thank you anyway 🙂
Jane 05/07/21:
Looking at your website what is quite obvious is the sheer effort, periods of spent time, dedication and creative commitment that you have put into your “purpose”/path! I mean, the hours you must have put into it?
Were you single at the time you started your site? What year did you and Ali meet? When did you get married?
Laz 05/07/21:
It was all after I met Ali, as we started going out in like 1998, then married in 2006
Jane 05/07/21:
I have to say that to a techno retard your website really is impressive 🙂 I am also finding it funny how in some of your earlier posts you swear a lot in your expressions 😀 please don’t take that as me taking the piss by devaluing your mind struggles, it just puts my own potty mouth into perspective 🙂 lmao.
Laz 05/07/21:
Yeah, i’m not sure what to make of that!
Jane 05/07/21:
I can in all honesty say that for the past two decades I have put my whole mind, body, heart and spirit/soul into my own path and I wasn’t going to stop! It was a mission! It felt like one apprenticeship after another that became a full time job. (with plenty of overtime! lol.) But it becomes something you do despite the obstacles and challenges because its like a magnetic draw into something that fascinates and intrigues and you come to enjoy doing as a Source purpose.
Laz 05/07/21:
I can agree completely, a calling, or my purpose, or something!
Jane 05/07/21:
Ok so on to chapter 12? If you want to take a break any time then just say. It doesn’t look too long and to be honest I want to finish this book and dive into the next topic 🙂
Laz 05/07/21:
Yes, I want to finish this book 🙂
Jane 06/07/21:
“There is something in all of us that works in counterposition to our voluntarily expressed desires”
I think there are multiple reasons and explanations for this and one is explained in kahuna psychology, they have specific terms for the three selves. Lower self, middle self and higher self as separate parts of us unless they are all integrated. It explains how it is the lower self (subconscious) that will dominate, take control and project itself by manifesting against the will of the middle self (conscious) will if that will be at odds. People don’t know what they hold in their subconscious so are oblivious to the disagreements within. This is one of the reasons how we find ourselves in that position..”I really don’t know why I did that!”
Benatars antinatalist position is extremely interesting to me, it starts with…” in the Christian tradition” p 362. I think this is how Christianity can be misinterpreted to the point where it is inadvertently turning some innocent Christians into something more akin to antichrists! We have already established that the “Christ” as a saviour is a construct of a concept in myth and religion necessary for many of those below the consciousness level of 600. (Hawkins chart) As is the planetary “god” for some of those above 600. I don’t believe that the “Jesus”/Christ concept was making the claim to be a full incarnation of god, or at least it wasn’t meant to. He referred to himself as the son of god, his father was above him so when he cries out “my god, my god why has thou forsaken me?” I see that as Jesus the man in doubts and despair and not god.
Laz 06/07/21:
Yes I have the same view, and that Jesus was a part of god in that inherited “son” role, but was not god himself. As is the case for all of us, we each carry a consciousness that has come from the source, but is not the source itself, or at least not it in entirety
Jane 06/07/21:
Yet to Benatar this is …”Seen as proof that god himself can lose faith when confronted with the unbearable realities of injustice, betrayal, suffering and death” This has clearly affected his own faith. Even the planetary “god” concept people believe in is basically just an energy frequency and not like an emotional human mind (nor judges humanity in any way, shape or form but I understand how below 600 such beliefs can be effective in controlling things like morality among the masses.)
Laz 06/07/21:
This comment bothered me too, it cannot be logical.
Jane 06/07/21:
But people do tend to have a need to anthropomorphise everything. I guess its the only way that some can make any sense of things?
Laz 06/07/21:
After reading Castaneda I don’t really have an issue with this. He posits that we are exceptionally short lived creatures, and move very fast into and then out of existence. Something like a rock could be alive, but living much slower than us, so we cannot perceive of its consciousness
Jane 06/07/21:
The human mind does tend to be limited in some in its abilities in conceptual thinking, I think once a consciousness grasps concepts in terms of things like energies, then they have a better ability to go beyond that anthromorphic limitation. Jordan says he was not otherwise malevolent so this poor guy seems to me to have had his head totally messed up in the same way my friend did, by false or misinterpreted teachings of a religion.
Ignorantly brainwashed into their minds in good faith but this is how it can psychologically transmute into this nihilism of self and others. The problem of religions is that they can end up messing with the true “word of god”. This is why religion can be so limiting even on higher paths. It is almost impossible to change a persons beliefs, religious, cultural or otherwise once those beliefs are installed/programmed onto their hard drives, brainwashed into the mind because then it is a case of…..
Laz 06/07/21:
I kind of agree, as long as those beliefs serve the person they will be unwavering in their insistence that they are absolute, but throw something groundbreaking in there, like say the vicar is discovered as being a pedo, and that believer will soon change their mind! I think Jordan said something similar in this or the prior chapter and I agree with him. Some people are like stubborn donkeys until they have a life changing experience 🙂
Jane 06/07/21:
It was funny to me because I only recognised this as having been my own experience when I read these words, heard it spoken and saw the clip on Star Wars. I thought oh that’s what was happening? Lol. Fortunately for me in my 40 day/night thing my mind was crashed, shut down and deprogrammed of all of it like automatically for me. Yay! This wasn’t a reboot It took me back to factory settings. Lol.
Laz 06/07/21:
Yay! indeed 🙂
Jane 06/07/21:
On grief. We have touched on this subject before about how our culture is somewhat stunted in growth and emotionally retarded compared to others when it comes to death, dead bodies and grief. We don’t do it well. One of the biggest contributors to my life-crash was I believe losing my dad and suppressing the grief. I was taking a maximum dose of the antidepressant amitriptyline (not for depression but to prevent repeated severe migraines) I noticed how the medication numbed my emotional and mental responses to this experience. I came to realise that for many years I was holding that grief not just in my subconscious but within every cell of my being. It was very damaging, but still just another part of my path.
But my dad’s death did something extraordinary to me as I sat and watched him slip slowly away over about 2 weeks. He showed me just how natural and peaceful a process it could be. He was in no way spiritual but he explained to me how he was waiting for the light, his last words to me were “ok it’s here, I think I’m going now” and I could see by his eyes that he was light blinded.
Laz 06/07/21:
Wow! That’s stunning, he did the courageous exit thing. I hope I can do the same when my time comes 🙂
Jane 06/07/21:
When I had my traumatic grounding 7 years ago and went through my “moth to the flame” experience it followed the same pattern as I had witnessed with my dad but condensed into a few hours. My grief over my friend was very different and an unexpected traumatic shock! but source took me through the process effectively so that I let it flow naturally in body and rationally in mind so that all detrimental energies were purged from my mind and body in about 10 weeks it wasn’t easy because we were exceptionally close energetically but I got through it …with your help I must add 🙂 It all seems so long ago now in my time warp world 🙂
Laz 06/07/21:
I’m pleased that you did, or we might not be writing now, and thank you for the compliment 🙂
Jane 06/07/21:
Have you experienced grief? If so how did it affect you?
Laz 06/07/21:
I think the deepest grief I have felt is when I found out at the age of 13 that my grandad had terminal cancer. I was knocked down at that point by the experience of someone so loved, having something so horrible happen in such a short space of time. I remember him lying in bed and calling me to him, where he gave me five pounds (god only knows where he’d stashed it) and asked if I would go to the corner shop and get my mother a box of chocolates from him.
I gladly did so, and she cried terribly when I handed them to her, but it was that strength in death thing again, of thinking of others before yourself, even at the end. It’s awe inspiring! His ultimate death after being taken to hospital on the last night was ultimately less emotional for me. I guess I saw it as a release for him.
The thing that stuck with me most in that chapter, and you touched on it above, was the need to know darkness to understand light. That you need to know where in the universal scale you stand, and that certainly has helped me be strong and it must be so hard for those who do not know how bad we can be, to think bad of people. In one sense they are innocent but in another they are fearful, and combined it is a recipe for them being manipulated. As you said and we previously discussed death is hidden from us generally and one must seek it out almost, even at a funeral ceremony it is still hidden. This I feel is by no means a societal accident, and is done to keep people weak 🙁
Laz 06/07/21:
I finished the book in the bath 🙂 I’ve not read the Coda bit at the end, did you?
Jane 07/07/21:
No I didn’t read the coda.
Your grandad sounds like he was a treasure, and what a gesture towards your mum. It can be the smallest things that have the greatest impact.